2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

[Steven]

That was a very enjoyable race!
Great drives from VER and SAI especially.

Quite funny that Bottas missed out on fastest lap by 0.001s to Vettel, despite making use of ultrasofts for the last 4 laps.

For me, the solution for these off-track discussions is also very simple. If we put orange sausage kerbs in the proper places - and not just in a few corners here and there like at CoTA - there would be nothing be decide for the stewards anyway.

I also fail to see why uphill kerbs are no longer used, especially on the inside of corners. I believe on the outside they're not flat to not launch cars, but steep kerbs on the inside of Turn 17 would have avoided some unnecessary animosity (and possibly create others with drivers losing control by going too far on them).

[GPR-A duplicate2]

So far, we could see 3 on track battles between Hamilton and Vettel and in all those 3, Hamilton has won the battle.

Just like the battles with Rosberg, Lewis comes out on top every time

Only in this case, he has not the same but a much better car than his opponnent. So you can't compare it. But nevertheless a deserved title. Even more than some before.

The second best driver in a Ferrari, could hunt down the second best driver in the Mercedes. The second best driver in the Mercedes is currently rated higher than the second best driver in the Ferrari (not just in standings, but also the way the drivers have performed so far in the season).

Bottas has been complaining about the car, ever since after the summer break. If one watches the onboards of Lewis throughout the weekend and as Brundle was also pointing out, there was so much understeer in that Mercedes.

I believe in the fact that, nobody can drive faster than a car can go.
1. Below average drivers perform to the 70% potential of the car.
2. Good drivers perform to the 80% potential of the car.
3. Very good drivers perform to the 90% potential of the car.
4. Great drivers perform to 90-97% of the potential of the car.

W08 seems to be a car that performs great ONLY when a driver blends to the DNA of the car and modifies the driving style to the liking of the car, rather than the car going to the liking of the driver, as the design of the car is probably such that, it doesn't suit any and every driver.

With that said, Bottas is having great degree of challenges to blend with the car due to the DIVA nature of it and probably is driving around 85-90% of the car's potential.

Whereas, SF70H is a far more stable and easy car that can suit most of the drivers and wouldn't pose large degree of challenges to a driver to get the optimum out of the car.

The conclusion? W08 is a slightly better car, ONLY in the hands of a great driver and driven to the car's absolute liking, unlike SF70H which is far more driver friendly.

[sosic2121]

I'm surprised Mercedes didn't file a complaint about the way Verstappen ran Bottas off the road. That looked like a penalty to me.

Finally, somebody mentioning this.
This became a standard move. It's perfectly fine to take inside line and push the other car off the track.

[Jolle]

What a race!!!

Hamilton was clearly the fastest guy out there. Even with Mercedes bad strategy he was +10 seconds ahead. He only waited until Vettel burned his tyres. The German pushed too hard but just because Ferrari had no enough pace to pull away from Mercedes. Lewis drove with one had, masterfully, but with one hand. The only bad thing by Sebastian was how he was overtaken by Lewis, it seems that Hamilton took him by surprise.

Anyway, his overtake when he was chasing Bottas was truly spectacular. For a second I thought he was going to hit the McLaren. Risky but spectacular move.

Once again Mercedes did weird things like delaying Hamilton´s stop too much and almost making possible an undercut. Bad move. And then not pitting Bottas to let him having a better pace in the last stint.

Spectacular race by Max but I guess he thinks he can do whatever he wants. He can´t.

What a debut by Carlos with Renault!!! fast, consitent and his overtake over Perez was amazing!. Awesome job.

It wasn’t weird (especially in hindsight) that they waited to pit Hamilton. He was on a one-stop while vet/ver were on two stops. It must have been marginal because with just a lap to go they made a safety stop for BOT who’s tires were just a few laps older.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Half decent race, it was quite close among the top 5 for quite a large part of the race which kept it exciting. We "finally" had the Hamilton Vs. Vettel that everyone has been saying we haven't had all season. There were several bad stewarding decisions over the weekend, especially the decision deciding 3rd place. It does appear there is a particular driver steward that most people agree makes the wrong decisions.

[marvin78]

Just like the battles with Rosberg, Lewis comes out on top every time

Only in this case, he has not the same but a much better car than his opponnent. So you can't compare it. But nevertheless a deserved title. Even more than some before.

The second best driver in a Ferrari, could hunt down the second best driver in the Mercedes. The second best driver in the Mercedes is currently rated higher than the second best driver in the Ferrari (not just in standings, but also the way the drivers have performed so far in the season).

Bottas has been complaining about the car, ever since after the summer break. If one watches the onboards of Lewis throughout the weekend and as Brundle was also pointing out, there was so much understeer in that Mercedes.

I believe in the fact that, nobody can drive faster than a car can go.
1. Below average drivers perform to the 70% potential of the car.
2. Good drivers perform to the 80% potential of the car.
3. Very good drivers perform to the 90% potential of the car.
4. Great drivers perform to 90-97% of the potential of the car.

W08 seems to be a car that performs great ONLY when a driver blends to the DNA of the car and modifies the driving style to the liking of the car, rather than the car going to the liking of the driver, as the design of the car is probably such that, it doesn't suit any and every driver.

With that said, Bottas is having great degree of challenges to blend with the car due to the DIVA nature of it and probably is driving around 85-90% of the car's potential.

Whereas, SF70H is a far more stable and easy car that can suit most of the drivers and wouldn't pose large degree of challenges to a driver to get the optimum out of the car.

The conclusion? W08 is a slightly better car, ONLY in the hands of a great driver and driven to the car's absolute liking, unlike SF70H which is far more driver friendly.

And how do you come to that conclusion? That's only guessing on virtual facts (what Brundle says) you made up or that you state as a fact (which they aren't). RAI could just be much better than Bottas or the Ferrarti suits both drivers because they have the same preferences but it would not suit other drivers. Or the Mercedes only suits Hamilton because it was built like that. There are so much possibilities. Uncountable. Understeering might be something, HAM is fine with and Bottas is not. The car was very very good, when I look at the onboards AND especially at the shots of the car over the massive bumbs on the circuit. The Ferrari was jumping arround there, the RedBull and Mercedes not.

So you can "prove" anything if you want. You can also say that the Ferrari is only the 3rd or 4th best car and that the drivers drive like gods (like some people believe Alonso did in 2010 and 2012 only because he declared the car bad which it was clearly not). But I would never do that. I only see Mercedes quite a bit in front of the Ferrari package and think that Bottas is just not a very good driver. Rosberg would clearly be second behind HAM in this car (might be wrong but we don't know - I always wanted to state an assumption as fact as you guys often do).

[Sieper]

Max doesn't,t think he can do whatever, he had at the most one chance to try and overtake Kimi (after storming in from the back of the grid) his team even radioed it in Kimi blocked aggressively in the corner before (like he also said post race) but Max keept making better exits and there was a little gap here, when Kimi then closed it (very, very, or even too?) late Max went for it and had a brief track limit, watch it real speed. It happened in the moment, it wasn't,t like he Thanks he can do whatever, that is just harsh.

But like I said, he did go for it so you can punish for it.

[jz11]

Max doesn't,t think he can do whatever, he had at the most one chance to try and overtake Kimi (after storming in from the back of the grid) his team even radioed it in Kimi blocked aggressively in the corner before (like he also said post race) but Max keept making better exits and there was a little gap here, when Kimi then closed it (very, very, or even too?) late Max went for it and had a brief track limit, watch it real speed. It happened in the moment, it wasn't,t like he Thanks he can do whatever, that is just harsh.

But like I said, he did go for it so you can punish for it.

yet the guy says post race that it was a stupid decision to penalize him for cutting the corner in order for the overtake to work...

[Shakeman]

James Alison said it's not so much that Bottas has had a slump but the fact that Lewis is absolutely top of his game and has hit another level. I think that it born out whenever we get a in car shot of Lewis's driving, he looks almost serene during his qualifying laps.

You can put whoever you like in the second Mercedes but with Lewis in the form he's in they'd be made to look like Bottas is now. Rosberg was an exceptional driver and would've been at least a three time WDC had Hamilton not been in the team but he was beaten by someone who can find that fraction extra even when all of his data is shared.

One example of how Lewis is hitting another level is his tyre preparation for qualifying, the team say he is able to prep each individual tyre to the right temp rather than getting them all 'about' right such that the tyres are working for the whole lap. It's the attention to detail this year that has got him to those marginal poles that would've gone to Ferrari when the Merc was being a diva.

I know this won't be enjoyed by the Hamilton haters but my advice is to sit back and enjoy watching arguably the fastest F1 driver in the history of the sport right at the top of his game, I am.

[Jolle]

Max doesn't,t think he can do whatever, he had at the most one chance to try and overtake Kimi (after storming in from the back of the grid) his team even radioed it in Kimi blocked aggressively in the corner before (like he also said post race) but Max keept making better exits and there was a little gap here, when Kimi then closed it (very, very, or even too?) late Max went for it and had a brief track limit, watch it real speed. It happened in the moment, it wasn't,t like he Thanks he can do whatever, that is just harsh.

But like I said, he did go for it so you can punish for it.

yet the guy says post race that it was a stupid decision to penalize him for cutting the corner in order for the overtake to work...

What do you expect then hahaha

“Oh yes, I made a mistake and well, bit of a shame really” “I did have a nice Sunday drive”

There is a brilliant interview somewhere where Steward en Senna discuss racing: “if you don’t go for the gap, you’re not a racer”

He just stepped out of a F1 car, racing from 16th to 3rd with second in view. Of course he’s right at that moment.

[jz11]

Max doesn't,t think he can do whatever, he had at the most one chance to try and overtake Kimi (after storming in from the back of the grid) his team even radioed it in Kimi blocked aggressively in the corner before (like he also said post race) but Max keept making better exits and there was a little gap here, when Kimi then closed it (very, very, or even too?) late Max went for it and had a brief track limit, watch it real speed. It happened in the moment, it wasn't,t like he Thanks he can do whatever, that is just harsh.

But like I said, he did go for it so you can punish for it.

yet the guy says post race that it was a stupid decision to penalize him for cutting the corner in order for the overtake to work...

What do you expect then hahaha

“Oh yes, I made a mistake and well, bit of a shame really” “I did have a nice Sunday drive”

There is a brilliant interview somewhere where Steward en Senna discuss racing: “if you don’t go for the gap, you’re not a racer”

He just stepped out of a F1 car, racing from 16th to 3rd with second in view. Of course he’s right at that moment.

his words mean that he thinks he was in the right to cut the corner, and that is the big problem here

I looked at the onboard, he committed to the maneuver after he saw kimi twitch to the right (but he didn't close the door), and decided to cut the corner to avoid any possibility of a high speed accident, split second decision, he did it, he DOES know it is not allowed in the rule book, without that much of a cut the overtake wouldn't happen, he does know the stewards are inconsistent, yet his reaction was not that he took the responsibility for his actions and admitting he broke the rule while doing the overtake, but that of person that had the right to do so - when in fact he wasn't

this sums him up, he is a quick driver, BUT he has really bad personality, and what he is doing is actually killing the sport, he is not sportsmanlike, he doesn't have respect for the rules and others, and thinks that that is what makes a racing driver - do whatever, and when things don't go his way, blame anything else, because if you blame yourself, you damage your confidence, I bet they are mind coached into doing that, because others seem to do the same thing in similar context

few pages ago, before the race (and I've said it in the past here), I said that this BS about not enforcing the track limit rules consistently will lead to unnecessary drama, and here you have it

there is another thing, he compared him cutting the corner to Bottas going wide while defending against his divebomb, when he couldn't make the corner and had to go very wide at the exit which consequently pushed Bottas outside the track, and he thinks that he did everything ok - while not leaving any space for Bottas on the outside, and thinks that the overtake was done when he dove in and put his car on the inside... now what does this tell you about him?

[Jolle]

yet the guy says post race that it was a stupid decision to penalize him for cutting the corner in order for the overtake to work...

What do you expect then hahaha

“Oh yes, I made a mistake and well, bit of a shame really” “I did have a nice Sunday drive”

There is a brilliant interview somewhere where Steward en Senna discuss racing: “if you don’t go for the gap, you’re not a racer”

He just stepped out of a F1 car, racing from 16th to 3rd with second in view. Of course he’s right at that moment.

his words mean that he thinks he was in the right to cut the corner, and that is the big problem here

I looked at the onboard, he committed to the maneuver after he saw kimi twitch to the right (but he didn't close the door), and decided to cut the corner to avoid any possibility of a high speed accident, split second decision, he did it, he DOES know it is not allowed in the rule book, without that much of a cut the overtake wouldn't happen, he does know the stewards are inconsistent, yet his reaction was not that he took the responsibility for his actions and admitting he broke the rule while doing the overtake, but that of person that had the right to do so - when in fact he wasn't

this sums him up, he is a quick driver, BUT he has really bad personality, and what he is doing is actually killing the sport, he is not sportsmanlike, he doesn't have respect for the rules and others, and thinks that that is what makes a racing driver - do whatever, and when things don't go his way, blame anything else, because if you blame yourself, you damage your confidence, I bet they are mind coached into doing that, because others seem to do the same thing in similar context

few pages ago, before the race (and I've said it in the past here), I said that this BS about not enforcing the track limit rules consistently will lead to unnecessary drama, and here you have it

there is another thing, he compared him cutting the corner to Bottas going wide while defending against his divebomb, when he couldn't make the corner and had to go very wide at the exit which consequently pushed Bottas outside the track, and he thinks that he did everything ok - while not leaving any space for Bottas on the outside, and thinks that the overtake was done when he dove in and put his car on the inside... now what does this tell you about him?

What I mean, just after the race, all adrenalined up, I fully understand his reaction and wouldn’t want it any other way. But it would be nice, after a day or so, he would put out a statement that indeed it was opportunistic and he understands the punishment.

I like racers who push and with that sometimes they go over the line. That’s ok.

[Just_a_fan]

It wasn’t weird (especially in hindsight) that they waited to pit Hamilton. He was on a one-stop while vet/ver were on two stops. It must have been marginal because with just a lap to go they made a safety stop for BOT who’s tires were just a few laps older.

Bottas had been fighting others a lot more than Hamilton. I'd guess this affects tyre life to some degree. Running off line to defend etc. will increase pick up which will make the tyres slide a bit more. Hamilton was in clear air most of the time, ideal lines, braking without lock ups etc. are all good for the tyres.

[jz11]

I also suspect that is the problem other drivers have with him - he isn't quite consistent when it comes to the rule book, just look at how HAM was tiptoeing with him when he made his overtake, it looked like he expected anything to happen there, and it is what happened with Bottas - he didn't leave any space at the exit, and he thought that was ok... because if he did, he would lose speed and that would allow Bottas to get him at the exit, so he managed to get the overtake done, his fans think of him as a hero, when in fact he simply disrespected the rule book yet again, because he knows that it would be judged and wrote off as a racing incident - because that is what the fans want to see, right, overtaking

My opinion is that other drivers don't expect him to behave properly, they know he will probably not leave the space for them, so they are extra cautious, and that works in his favor, and that in turn makes him look better than he really is, he is young, he is arrogant, he is fast, he is aggressive, but wait till you see him actually start to think championship wise, not just take any chance and hope that the other guy backs off.

[marvin78]

That's how nearly all his "spectacular" overtakes worked: Hoping the other one leaves space. Which they did.