2017 Red Bull Racing Team - Tag Heuer

[Sieper]

The way I see it there was only one (major) screw up by max this season (Hungary) the other collision to my eyes are more on the conto of the other driver involved but OK.

The clutch did not engage and he could hardly get underway from the start position, then was rammed by Kvyat (he only was there because of the clutch) and after that you could hear the clutch slipping several times, surely not an anti stall issue. He had to retire the car lap 1 (didn't finish the lap). Max himselve post race said that even if he would have been able to get going he would have had to retire at the first pit stop as well. I am counting this one as a mech failure.

I surely hope RBR will try to sign Ricciardo longer as well. Nr1 or 2 is a bit of a non-issue if both drivers are more or less on the same level. You are totally right in saying he is much more mature, he knows when to make a joke and how to bring it and often helps Max out (who tends to be somewhat overly serious) and for sure a big part of the good atmosphere can be written on his account. Also on track Ricciardo is very mature. He tends to stay out of fights / risks that Max does take. For example Japan first corner, Ricciardo gives the room that others (Max falls victim of this sometimes still) simply refuse to. Sometimes you have to fight but you also must know when to recede. It is a hard choice.

Also, Ricci is a good deal faster then either Bottas or Kimi to my eye so if he goes to either team it will be a tough nut fro Max to crack, so for that reason alone I'd rather see him in the RBR just as max, equal cars! Also I think RBR (if they can finally start the season on the front foot in 2018) might have a crack at the WDC/WCC.

[ME4ME]

Max is amazing, don't get me wrong, he is just still too rough around the edges and Ric is more complete.

2016 is another example. While team mates Daniel outscored Max in 2016. And he has done the same in 2017.

I guess you're entitled to your opinion

[NathanOlder]

Max is amazing, don't get me wrong, he is just still too rough around the edges and Ric is more complete.

2016 is another example. While team mates Daniel outscored Max in 2016. And he has done the same in 2017.

I guess you're entitled to your opinion

Well the second bit is a fact, not an opinion. As for the first bit, if Max was more complete why would he still have and be involved in so many accidents.

[Edax]

Max is amazing, don't get me wrong, he is just still too rough around the edges and Ric is more complete.

2016 is another example. While team mates Daniel outscored Max in 2016. And he has done the same in 2017.

I guess you're entitled to your opinion

Well the second bit is a fact, not an opinion. As for the first bit, if Max was more complete why would he still have and be involved in so many accidents.

I think the answer is because he is faster. I have not got the statistics to back it up but I think VES pass to fail ratio is actually not that bad, he just makes a lot of passes.

The RB usually underqualifies due to the lack off quali mode. Combined with his usually fast starts and fast first lap he often encounters people in the first laps. Due to his tire management he is also often able to reel in people at the end of a stint.

That often brings him in striking mode of the front runners. Last year he was for instance the only one to place more than one passes on the Merc in race trim. And yes that sometimes goes wrong.

RIC has a more modest start and usually slots in in the gap between merc/ferrari and the rest and strategically builds up his race from there. He usually does not come that close to a ferrari that they can have contact.

That is not a negative, obviously it has brought him a lot more points and less incidents than VES. And I think that VES should learn from that.

As for completenes, I’d say neither are at the moment. But to get to completeness, RIC needs to get faster and VES needs to get smarter.

I’d say the latter is more likely to happen with maturity, experience and the right coaching, though it is not a given.

[NathanOlder]

The thing is , if max calms down to avoid as many accidents, he may well lose the edge over Ric in qualy and then they will both be equally fast and equally consistent.

I always remember how fast Maldonado was , but because he lived on the edge he had soooo many accidents. If he concentrated on being safe, he would lose the edge he had over a single lap. So its a hard balance to get right and i feel Danny Ric has it right at the moment. Max is slightly towards being faster rather than consistent results.

[Sieper]

lets hope next year the Renault PU (and other technical aspect) will be better in control at RB and we wont see as many technical failures for both drivers. Also, Max will have learned (I hope) more when he is vulnerable (massa in the Monza chicane etc.). I think you will be surprised how consistent he will be. Look how consistent he is now, last race he started 16th and without crashes or safetycars he still almost made it to the podium (he could have made a run for it )

[Edax]

The thing is , if max calms down to avoid as many accidents, he may well lose the edge over Ric in qualy and then they will both be equally fast and equally consistent.

I always remember how fast Maldonado was , but because he lived on the edge he had soooo many accidents. If he concentrated on being safe, he would lose the edge he had over a single lap. So its a hard balance to get right and i feel Danny Ric has it right at the moment. Max is slightly towards being faster rather than consistent results.

I don’t think that comparison is just. Maldonado was often driving at the edge or just beyond the capabilities of himself and the car. Seing Maldonado do a qualifying lap is like a 1.5 minute near accident ( same with grosean by the way).

I think VES by now has proven to be fast and precise on his own. He normally looks in control. Also you cannot save your tires when you are overdriving. Maldonado constantly was running out of rubber whereas VES has good tire management.

I see VES more as people like Hamilton and Vettel in the beginning. Remember Vettel and Kubica in Melbourne, that could well be VES. Not wanting to give up a position, and crashing your car while trying to race your opponent to the pits with a broken wing.

That might fade with experience, as it did with Hamilton and Vettel, or maybe not ( his father earned the nickname “gravelpit Jos” over his career), but the speed remains.

Not to be mistaken, I value RIC as a great driver. And with the right material he could be a WC. But I think VES has a bit more development potential and more time to unlock it.

[NathanOlder]

The thing is , if max calms down to avoid as many accidents, he may well lose the edge over Ric in qualy and then they will both be equally fast and equally consistent.

I always remember how fast Maldonado was , but because he lived on the edge he had soooo many accidents. If he concentrated on being safe, he would lose the edge he had over a single lap. So its a hard balance to get right and i feel Danny Ric has it right at the moment. Max is slightly towards being faster rather than consistent results.

I don’t think that comparison is just. Maldonado was often driving at the edge or just beyond the capabilities of himself and the car. Seing Maldonado do a qualifying lap is like a 1.5 minute near accident ( same with grosean by the way).

I think VES by now has proven to be fast and precise on his own. He normally looks in control. Also you cannot save your tires when you are overdriving. Maldonado constantly was running out of rubber whereas VES has good tire management.

I see VES more as people like Hamilton and Vettel in the beginning. Remember Vettel and Kubica in Melbourne, that could well be VES. Not wanting to give up a position, and crashing your car while trying to race your opponent to the pits with a broken wing.

That might fade with experience, as it did with Hamilton and Vettel, or maybe not ( his father earned the nickname “gravelpit Jos” over his career), but the speed remains.

Not to be mistaken, I value RIC as a great driver. And with the right material he could be a WC. But I think VES has a bit more development potential and more time to unlock it.

Without a doubt, but right now Ricciardo is more complete.

[godlameroso]

[Artur Craft]

If for some reason Renault significantly reduces it's power gap to Mercedes, and fix it's reliability at the same time, I can only see RB dominating the field and Merc/Fer might have to deal with Mclaren and the factory Renault

VERS will win the Mexican GP if his car doesn't break

[Sieper]

I think so too, caveat emptor, 1st turn and later in race, Vettel in the emotions of having lost the title and then also this race might also cause problems

[DiogoBrand]

Is it official already that whenever Kvyat is demoted, Verstappen wins? Perhaps Red Bull just have to hire and fire him between every race weekend and they'll win the easiest driver's championship ever.

[etusch]

I were expecting at the start of season that Renault can do their objective in terms of performance and redbull make best chassis. Both didn't happened. But at the end of season redbull became best chassis maybe one of the best with Ferrari. But Renault couldn't do the job because of reliability.
I hope RBT will start to 2018 with such a competitive chassis. Max is very fast man. He can be our (F1 fans) new champion.

[godlameroso]

Is it official already that whenever Kvyat is demoted, Verstappen wins? Perhaps Red Bull just have to hire and fire him between every race weekend and they'll win the easiest driver's championship ever.

He's being considered for Williams.

Red Bull was all like, you take our Russian torpedo, and a few aerodynamicists, bench him every now and then so we can keep winning races.

[HPD]