2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[etusch]

Personally I do not believe in this man's word. Typical of people who want to be the center of attention, defame the others.
I can say in a technical forum that I do not like the color "Brown". (?

TBF, it's google translate. The earlier interview given by EB/Zak said that they offered to get Mercedes to help them with Ojjeh mediating that deal but HOnda refused. I think it was on autosport or something.

This. It was mentioned that Mansour was not impressed when Honda refused assistance from Merc.

I am very happy to read Honda's Merc help refuse. I am looking forward to read same from Ferrari. For me this" Merc is too good that they're helping other manufacturers to make them competitive" approach is some dirty Mercedes commercial.

[ripper]

I'm italian and without google translate I can assure you that Zak Brown in that interview said:

- Mercedes helped Honda
- Honda main reason for their failure was their culture: they did their job in the "Honda way". It wasn't lack of commitment, engineers or funds, it was their philosophy.
- Thier objective for next year is to beat Red Bull

[mclaren111]

EspnF1.com:

McLaren has announced British teenage sensation Lando Norris will be its test and reserve driver for the 2018 Formula One season.

Best news of the year !!

[NathanOlder]

Watched Lando for a couple of years and he definitely is a special talent. Can't wait for him to get in a decent car. The Brits will have someone to cheer on once Lewis leaves.

Lando is Lewis2.0

[j.yank]

Just for the sake of clarity.

For the sake of clarity, during the race Alonso passed Vandoorn 3 laps earlier - at 13:27:10.000 he was 5 sec ahead of Vandoorn. In the qualification at the 8-9 minute of the first qualification GRO is already in the box, and ALO makes its first lap after going out. Thanks for the clarification.

In a moment of luck, you happen to find something which supports your weak argument and make someone else look stupid.

I am stupid. Post should have read...

Race Speed Traps from Mexico:
Fernando Alonso - McLaren Honda - 348.0 - 13:27:10.000 Posted whilst following GRO
Max Verstappen - Red Bull Racing - 345.3 - 13:41:13 in clean air running first on the road

Qualification Speed Traps from Mexico:
Max Verstappen - Red Bull Racing - 345.7 - 13:05:40.000 in clean air
Fernando Alonso - McLaren Honda - 344.4 - 13:08:53.000 Posted during a tow from VAN

Bett run off and check that now. You might not like what you find.

Qualifying VAN without tow 335.9kph. Only 10kph difference.

Now with the same drag and the slower car having 890hp, to get extra 10kph in top speed you need an extra 90hp or 980hp.

If McLaren has more drag, how much more drag must it have if the engines are equal?

10.6%!

I would state that the RedBull is probably more efficient than the McLaren. But, not to the tune of over 10% less drag for a given downforce.

+1% drag 82hp
+2% drag 73hp
+3% drag 65hp
+4% drag 56hp
+5% drag 48hp
+6% drag 39hp
+7% drag 31hp
+8% drag 22hp
+9% drag 14hp
+10% drag 5hp

Basis of calcs are air density of 0.98kg/m3
Coefficient of rolling resistance 0.045
CdA of RB 1.614.

I did the same math for Austin comparing against the Renault and got an equal drag hp deficit of 73hp. In Mexico I get 69hp.

Actually during the race max speed of ALO is behind ERI, not behind GRO, but let suppose that you are right and without towing ALO is 10 km/h behind VER. However, your calculations count only on difference in the drag force while I am saying that the chassis performance results both from drag and downforce - you can have increased downforce with relatively reduced drag. I already mentioned that the function of the front wing is not only to produce downforce but more importantly to shed off the air impact on the car body, which could reduce the drag while keeping the downforce overall high. Otherwise it will be very simple for most of the teams just to make a bigger front wing in order to produce more downforce. Yet, the geometry of the front wing is regarded as one of most important factors in the aero package. Of course, we can only speculate on the actual values, but in anyway they will be significantly different from your calculations relaying to simulate the top speeds only with the drag or the power.

[HPD]

[63l8qrrfy6]

In my experience, you can't always believe what the press writes, team principles rarely speak the facts and when they do, spin them to make the team and/or themselves look better than maybe they actually are.

Isn't that what Hasegawa has been doing, touting engine gains and improvements for the past couple years ?

[Wazari]

hi Wazari,
have you got any info about the current spec 3.8 power figures.

I do and I will share once the season is over. A nice thing about being retired is having the leisure time to go over race telemetry and engine telemetry and carefully analyze numbers without bias. The differences between the 4 PU's are a lot smaller than I think what most people think.

[Wazari]

In my experience, you can't always believe what the press writes, team principles rarely speak the facts and when they do, spin them to make the team and/or themselves look better than maybe they actually are.

Isn't that what Hasegawa has been doing, touting engine gains and improvements for the past couple years ?

I don't understand why you are singling out Hasegawa-san in response to my post??? If anything, he is the least guilty IMO. Citing problems and "touting" 4 HP gains is probably pretty factual IMO. I was speaking in generalities whether it be Christian, Toto, Mario or Zak, etc. I just see fans here sometimes take what these individuals say to be gospel and when in fact it's embellished tremendously, spun facts or simply not true. That's all. There are things said about Honda that bother me too. Many times it has been mentioned that Honda refused "outside help". That is not true. Yet it is repeated. Mercedes help to Honda.....really??? A one paragraph memo recommending a split turbocharger and mentioning its advantages is help..........well I guess it could be interpreted as that. And there are so many other examples that it simply boggles my mind and in my old age I find it disturbing and frustrating at times. So as I digress, I did not have anyone in particular when I posted that.

[McHonda]

The difference between Renault and Honda performance wise is worth giving up 7 years of Works Support for which is the only 100% cast iron fact out there and tells us absolutely everything we need to know.

[63l8qrrfy6]

In my experience, you can't always believe what the press writes, team principles rarely speak the facts and when they do, spin them to make the team and/or themselves look better than maybe they actually are.

Isn't that what Hasegawa has been doing, touting engine gains and improvements for the past couple years ?

I don't understand why you are singling out Hasegawa-san in response to my post??? If anything, he is the least guilty IMO. Citing problems and "touting" 4 HP gains is probably pretty factual IMO. I was speaking in generalities whether it be Christian, Toto, Mario or Zak, etc. I just see fans here sometimes take what these individuals say to be gospel and when in fact it's embellished tremendously, spun facts or simply not true. That's all. There are things said about Honda that bother me too. Many times it has been mentioned that Honda refused "outside help". That is not true. Yet it is repeated. Mercedes help to Honda.....really??? A one paragraph memo recommending a split turbocharger and mentioning its advantages is help..........well I guess it could be interpreted as that. And there are so many other examples that it simply boggles my mind and in my old age I find it disturbing and frustrating at times. So as I digress, I did not have anyone in particular when I posted that.

I did not mean to provoke such a reaction - I do like to poke a bit of fun at various teams every now and then and Mclaren Honda is such an easy target..

Anyway that is a very interesting statement regarding the memo - I would not have touched a split turbo with a ten foot pole. Was it sent by a greek by any chance ?

[McHonda]

As if an outfit like Mercedes waste their time by sending something you could find online from any tech reporter since 2014 in the first place.

[Wazari]

As if an outfit like Mercedes waste their time by sending something you could find online from any tech reporter since 2014 in the first place.

Sometimes things that are done that can be construed as silly or not making any sense to us, is to have things on record.

[stevesingo]

For the sake of clarity, during the race Alonso passed Vandoorn 3 laps earlier - at 13:27:10.000 he was 5 sec ahead of Vandoorn. In the qualification at the 8-9 minute of the first qualification GRO is already in the box, and ALO makes its first lap after going out. Thanks for the clarification.

In a moment of luck, you happen to find something which supports your weak argument and make someone else look stupid.

I am stupid. Post should have read...

Race Speed Traps from Mexico:
Fernando Alonso - McLaren Honda - 348.0 - 13:27:10.000 Posted whilst following GRO
Max Verstappen - Red Bull Racing - 345.3 - 13:41:13 in clean air running first on the road

Qualification Speed Traps from Mexico:
Max Verstappen - Red Bull Racing - 345.7 - 13:05:40.000 in clean air
Fernando Alonso - McLaren Honda - 344.4 - 13:08:53.000 Posted during a tow from VAN

Bett run off and check that now. You might not like what you find.

Qualifying VAN without tow 335.9kph. Only 10kph difference.

Now with the same drag and the slower car having 890hp, to get extra 10kph in top speed you need an extra 90hp or 980hp.

If McLaren has more drag, how much more drag must it have if the engines are equal?

10.6%!

I would state that the RedBull is probably more efficient than the McLaren. But, not to the tune of over 10% less drag for a given downforce.

+1% drag 82hp
+2% drag 73hp
+3% drag 65hp
+4% drag 56hp
+5% drag 48hp
+6% drag 39hp
+7% drag 31hp
+8% drag 22hp
+9% drag 14hp
+10% drag 5hp

Basis of calcs are air density of 0.98kg/m3
Coefficient of rolling resistance 0.045
CdA of RB 1.614.

I did the same math for Austin comparing against the Renault and got an equal drag hp deficit of 73hp. In Mexico I get 69hp.

Actually during the race max speed of ALO is behind ERI, not behind GRO, but let suppose that you are right and without towing ALO is 10 km/h behind VER. However, your calculations count only on difference in the drag force while I am saying that the chassis performance results both from drag and downforce - you can have increased downforce with relatively reduced drag. I already mentioned that the function of the front wing is not only to produce downforce but more importantly to shed off the air impact on the car body, which could reduce the drag while keeping the downforce overall high. Otherwise it will be very simple for most of the teams just to make a bigger front wing in order to produce more downforce. Yet, the geometry of the front wing is regarded as one of most important factors in the aero package. Of course, we can only speculate on the actual values, but in anyway they will be significantly different from your calculations relaying to simulate the top speeds only with the drag or the power.

The terminal speed is a function of power, drag and rolling resistance. Rolling resistance is a function of many things, tyre scrub and tyre deformation being the greatest. Tyre deformation will be a function of vertical force which is Mass + downforce.

In my calcs I use a constant for rolling resistance which is not ideal as it doesn't allow for scrub difference through geometry variance or vertical load through downforce, but as the rolling resistance is such a small proportion (<5%) of the overall load, in reality it makes little difference. Adding 10% to the coefficient of rolling resistance constant changes the estimated power by 5hp. Changing the vertical load from 700kg to 2800kg adds only 5hp to the prediction.

[etusch]

Drag is also has big affect on consumption which affects Honda's race performance. if McLaren has dragier as talked about this may cause not only lower max speed but also race pace