Sharkfin Design

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f1italia
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Joined: 29 Jun 2007, 03:13

Sharkfin Design

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I see three teams are now using the sharkfin design. I still have yet to see an advantage with this design. Does anyone know how the sharkfin actually helps the car?

roost89
roost89
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Joined: 10 Apr 2008, 19:34
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Re: Sharkfin Design

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With my limited knowledge, I suspect that the wing would lessen the turbulence coming off of the back of car in that area and/or it may act to guide the air to where it's needed.
There was a bit on the Official F1 site: http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... 7/507.html
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The FOZ
The FOZ
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Joined: 07 Feb 2008, 23:04
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Re: Sharkfin Design

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Sure, it would reduce turbulence (drag) behind the engine area.

ginsu
ginsu
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 02:23

Re: Sharkfin Design

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It should help stabilize the car during crosswinds. It acts a bit like a rudder on an airplane. Should the car encounter a crosswind, it would push the rear end out and point the nose into the wind, thereby reducing it's crosswind sensitivity, this helps make the car more stable during unexpected gusts, but also would help point the car into the corner when the driver makes a sudden direction change.
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mini696
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Joined: 20 Mar 2006, 02:34

Re: Sharkfin Design

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It acts like a keel/centerboard on yachts too. It will help stop the car sliding sideways through a corner and therefore improving tyre wear.
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The FOZ
The FOZ
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Re: Sharkfin Design

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ginsu wrote:It should help stabilize the car during crosswinds. It acts a bit like a rudder on an airplane. Should the car encounter a crosswind, it would push the rear end out and point the nose into the wind, thereby reducing it's crosswind sensitivity, this helps make the car more stable during unexpected gusts, but also would help point the car into the corner when the driver makes a sudden direction change.
May I remind you, this is motor car racing, there's more than one car on the track at once, and it's just that, a track. Not a giant parking lot. Where you pooint your car matters. Having a "sail" on your car, effectively making you at the mercy of strong wind gusts, would not be a good thing.

No, they don't work like you just stated.

The FOZ
The FOZ
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Re: Sharkfin Design

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mini696 wrote:It acts like a keel/centerboard on yachts too. It will help stop the car sliding sideways through a corner and therefore improving tyre wear.

Really? So you're saying that half a square meter or so of surface area in air (a fluid), is making that much of a difference up against the friction between tire and road, and the low pressure of downforce?

No.

In a turn, no matter how tight, the pressure difference between the side of the car inside the turn VS the side on the outside of the turn is negligible. No real air resistance. The "sail" effect on perpendicular airflow is negligible, even at the speeds these cars see.

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f1italia
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Joined: 29 Jun 2007, 03:13

Re: Sharkfin Design

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If the sharkfin had any advantage, Ferrari would be using it. If Ferrari does not have it, most likely it doesn't work.

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Sawtooth-spike
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005, 15:33
Location: Cambridge

Re: Sharkfin Design

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f1italia wrote:If the sharkfin had any advantage, Ferrari would be using it. If Ferrari does not have it, most likely it doesn't work.
so they are just doing it for fun?

It clearly does otherwise it would not be on there
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modbaraban
modbaraban
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Joined: 05 Apr 2007, 17:44
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Sharkfin Design

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Sawtooth-spike wrote:
f1italia wrote:If the sharkfin had any advantage, Ferrari would be using it. If Ferrari does not have it, most likely it doesn't work.
so they are just doing it for fun?

It clearly does otherwise it would not be on there
Apparently Ferrari are developing their race car while other are just there to fool around :D

bettonracing
bettonracing
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 15:57

Re: Sharkfin Design

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f1italia wrote:If the sharkfin had any advantage, Ferrari would be using it. If Ferrari does not have it, most likely it doesn't work.
Maybe they're testing it (or optimizing it for their aero) prior to using it?

Or maybe their making these radical aero steps one at a time for better evaluation?

Or maybe it doesn't integrate with their rear wing very well (one could argue that this means the rest of the teams haven't optimized their wings since Ferrari clearly has a performance advantage)?

Maybe the advantages are very marginal with their aero package but more effective on other teams' packages?

Maybe they're saving it until the other teams start closing the gap?

I think You get the point.

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H. Kurt Betton

bazanaius
bazanaius
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Joined: 08 Feb 2008, 17:16

Re: Sharkfin Design

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Maybe the advantages are very marginal with their aero package but more effective on other teams' packages?
yes.
If the sharkfin had any advantage, Ferrari would be using it. If Ferrari does not have it, most likely it doesn't work.
No.

There is not just one solution to a problem, particularly one as complex as building a fast f1 car. Sure, ferrari is quick, but that doesn't mean that any solution other than theirs 'doesn't work'. The aero on these cars is such a complex package, it's how it all fits together that matters.

Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: Sharkfin Design

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The FOZ wrote:
mini696 wrote:It acts like a keel/centerboard on yachts too. It will help stop the car sliding sideways through a corner and therefore improving tyre wear.

Really? So you're saying that half a square meter or so of surface area in air (a fluid), is making that much of a difference up against the friction between tire and road, and the low pressure of downforce?

No.

In a turn, no matter how tight, the pressure difference between the side of the car inside the turn VS the side on the outside of the turn is negligible. No real air resistance. The "sail" effect on perpendicular airflow is negligible, even at the speeds these cars see.
So, do you have the real answer since you so eloquently pounded on others that took stabs at the right answer?

Care to enlighten us to the REAL UNDERSTANDING since you are very quick to smash others' claims?

I'll check back and see...

Chris

Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: Sharkfin Design

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bazanaius wrote:
Maybe the advantages are very marginal with their aero package but more effective on other teams' packages?
yes.
If the sharkfin had any advantage, Ferrari would be using it. If Ferrari does not have it, most likely it doesn't work.
No.

There is not just one solution to a problem, particularly one as complex as building a fast f1 car. Sure, ferrari is quick, but that doesn't mean that any solution other than theirs 'doesn't work'. The aero on these cars is such a complex package, it's how it all fits together that matters.
As there are several, possibly millions of solutions to producing a fast F1 car, logic dictates that there can only be one PERFECT solution. I like to believe that F1's main motivating factor is achieving that solution to the formula regulations.

One has to wonder if Renault simply offered to compensate Red Bull for the packaging design of their engine cover. Since it would be realistic to believe that the identical engines would have similar packaging requirements.

I think that Renault went looking for better air management around the R27 engine, and picked up the shark fin as a bonus. Especially if RBR explained the fin research data to the Renault aero team.

Chris

wesley123
wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Sharkfin Design

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If the sharkfin had any advantage, Ferrari would be using it. If Ferrari does not have it, most likely it doesn't work.
Ferrari is using one to but it is looking a bit wider and different
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