2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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He better make sure Stroll doesn't beat him. Because Stroll can get some kind of enlightenment over the winter and come back as a more consistent driver. From what i see Stroll just needs to calm down and be more steady and he will be fine. He is still nervous behind the wheel.
But it's not going to be hard to beat a man with effectively 1 arm. Kubica needs to be careful.
For Sure!!

netoperek
netoperek
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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You keep saying he has effectively 1 arm and taking for granted that he sure must be some sort of a cripple who must have lost half his former speed due to those rally injuries. What is Your conviction based at? Have You ever considered that he may recovered significantly over those past few years?
Here is few things to think over and maybe make You and maybe some fellow Williams supporters a bit less pesimistic about Kubica:
he has been regarded as quite capable F1 driver, topped the timesheets on preseason testing just few days before the crash - so the speed and talent was there at the time
then there's a crash in 2011
2 years and multiple surgeries later, as a part of a rehabilitation process, Kubica enters WRC2 championship and wins it - so the speed is probably still there, I suppose? Rallying is quite demanding so physically he is capable of enduring quite a bit by that time.
First rumors of spectacular F1 comeback are spreading, but Kubica himself cuts it saying that even though he could drive competitevely, he would probably be unable to drive 100% on couple tracks due to rotation limitation of his elbow and for him its all or nothing.
Few more years, surgeries and a number of WRC stages won later, comes late 2016 and Kubica gets back to track racing to evaluate his progress and grabs a podium in his single outing in Renault Sports Trophy just before getting some track time in a WEC Bahrain testing session, setting a better time than all regular ByKolles drivers set in a race.
Then comes 2017. Some GT3 and DTM testing (iirc) done. Kubica finally says he is ready to test himself in F1 again and as an opportunity to do so appears, he quits his WEC racing option and goes for it. After Valencia Lotus E20 test, his first F1 experience since 2011, Cyril Abiteboul stated that 'he was still quick, still consistent and more importantly he still has the enthusiasm he always carried to the team'. He added that there were 'no obvious roadblocks' to an F1 return. He made over a century of laps, beating official test driver in the process and impressed Renault enough to prepare another test for him at Paul Ricard. Shortly after came an announcement that Robert will get a day in R.S. 17 during Hungaroring official testing days. He has done over 140 laps and recorded 4th time without even a single qually simulation lap done, as Renault addmited they wanted him to do a regular testing job done and saved hot laps for later, which never happened because of red flags at the end of the session.
Nothing at this point suggested any problems with stamina, speed, current spec car adaptation or car development ability. Nor there has been a single statement or opinion from anyone involved or witnessing those tests that he has ANY limitations whatsoever. Kubica after tests admitted that he had small doubts before but after he jumped in, all doubts were gone and confidence was at full 100%. One of the strongest doubts were if he could make the car evacuation time required for F1 but he passed this test in his first try, so no problem here either.
Williams has given Robert 2 private tests and now is giving him an all important time during Abu Dhabi test, which might suggest he is not a handicapped, one arm driver after all - at least to Williams crew, which i dare say, have more tools and data to evaluate his abilities than internet statements based on some photos or personal convictions.

gshevlin
gshevlin
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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Let us not get too carried away about the potential performance of Robert Kubica. In 2010 a certain Michael Schumacher returned from several years in retirement to drive for Mercedes, where many people expected him to dust off Nico Rosberg. To significant surprise, Schumacher was consistently slower than Rosberg in both qualifying and racing. The layoff had blunted his speed. Kubica is a lot younger than Schumacher, but is also going to be driving with an arm that is less than 100% of full strength and with compromised mobility. I suggest that everybody reserve judgment.

bosyber
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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gshevlin wrote:
19 Nov 2017, 09:30
Let us not get too carried away about the potential performance of Robert Kubica. In 2010 a certain Michael Schumacher returned from several years in retirement to drive for Mercedes, where many people expected him to dust off Nico Rosberg. To significant surprise, Schumacher was consistently slower than Rosberg in both qualifying and racing. The layoff had blunted his speed...
Well, or maybe now that we had three seasons in which Rosberg managed to sometimes beat Hamilton on Saturday pace, and was often not so far off otherwise (enough to make some say he'd probably have soundly beaten Bottas this year), and put in a lot of work and some luck and managed to become 2016 WDC, we could re-evaluate that: yes, likely Schumacher lost some speed, and some racecraft (singapore 2012?!) but perhaps not as much as we thought, because we did underestime Rosberg.

Since Kubica was very promising (Alonso "fastest I know", even some loss of speed would mean he's a lot better than other options. But indeed, let's wait and see.

netoperek
netoperek
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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I agree there's no way to tell if he's good or bad until he's given a seat. I don't think Kubica's possible return should be compared to Schumacher case - Michael has been out of motorsport for 3 years prior to his comeback, except for few testing sessions with Ferrari and what's more important lacked motivation. Very understeery Mercedes was not exactly the most reliable and fastest car on the grid those days which frustrated MS even more I guess. When he had a point to prove, he delivered though - like 2011 SPA - finishing 5th from starting last. I think that without extreme dedication and motivation Kubica wouldn't be where he is now, and he has not been out of motorsport, too.

BTW, Kubica's right arm in action:


If he gets a drive, there's at least a chance Williams will finally get a top class driver to push them further. Let's just wait and see what happens.

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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Weren't there some reports around as well that suggested that the Schumacher who returned to F1 in 2010 was not the same man he was in his first career after his motorcycle accident in 2009?

This is the only one I can find now, but I am sure there were others including quotes from F1 insiders:

https://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/2 ... irms-medic

That alone would mean that you can't compare his comeback with that of Kubica.
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ringo
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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Nice video of RK. The spirit of speed is still there. My doubts are really just that the limb will not be the same as 100%. Another limb will have to be at 150% to compensate. The mobility of the fingers and the strength of the grip will put most of the work on the left arm.
I think he can come back and compete, i am just saying maybe that Kubica at 95% of himself can find a Stroll at 100% a challenge.
I remember when Mark Webber had his leg problem. I think he suffered a broken leg from bike riding. Though he could still drive the car and deal with the pain, it did affect his braking ability. He was competitive yes, but he wasn't 100% and this played into Vettel's hands.Mark may have been WDC without that little leg annoyance who knows?
Kubica's disadvantage may not be big enough to prevent him from getting the seat, but we can't say outright young Stroll wont smell the weakness of the sick gazelle dropping off at the back of the herd and pounce. :lol:
For Sure!!

netoperek
netoperek
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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Had Lance found his 100% already? I got the impression that some of those % are still eluding him :twisted:
That gazelle alegory was hilarious. Quick google search provides a shortlist of what kind of a predator could Lance Stroll possibly be:
1) african wild dog
2) cat
3) spotted hyena
4) Jackal
Which one would You choose? :lol:

Let me boost Your faith in Robert a bit with some more trivia. Kubica has a nasty habit of driving better when at disadvantage of some kind like winning his debut Formula 3 race with 18 screws in an arm broken in 5 different places or winning 2008 Canada race when some said he will have a psychological barrier after that 2007 crash there.
That man's bio really is providing some good riposte material :lol:

Raleigh
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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Schumacher was 40 when he came back and retired again at 43, the simplest explanation is that he lost his edge with age. That, and people underestimated Rosberg.

Robert is only 32, same age as Hamilton.

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TAG
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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Some loud rumblings on the internet about Robert Kubica joining Williams for 2018. Still looking for something from a mainstream source though. https://racingnews365.nl/breaking-rober ... j-williams
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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NathanOlder wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 15:25
https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/2336 ... t-williams

RTL claiming its done ?!
Taking into account that there is still one aadditional test in Abu Dhabi, where he should proof himself, I think its too adventurous to claim that he will sign with Williams. This is something I would love to see but he needs to show he is faster than Sirotkin and others.

bill shoe
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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Some big-picture perspective on the current Williams/Kubica situation from Joe Saward.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2017/11 ... -williams/

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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I think Wehrlein will be the most ruthless choice for Williams, Kubica the most romantic with great PR.
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Sevach
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Re: 2017 Williams Martini Racing Team - Mercedes

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