Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Squid]

Ferrari were at full power as well. It was maybe enough power to stop the #44 car from an on track overtake after juncao, but I doubt they could have stopped a clean air undercut out of the pits.

I'm a bit surprised that Ferrari being at full power is often left out of convos. They were, as you said, definitely on/at full beans. One can usually hear the difference in pitch and tone of the engine fr om onboards. Tbh I think Ham could pass given a few more laps, it was really just the dirty air that made it much harder.

I was at the GP. The Mercedes and Ferrari were something else in regards to how loud they were. I could comfortably hear every other car pass without ear protection, but when the Mercedes and Ferrari passed, I could feel my eardrum shaking. Much closer to the sound they made when they were starting their hotlaps in qualifying then their race simulations during free practices.

On a side note, I was surprised at how different the Williams sounded. While the Force Indias just sounded like quieter Mercedes, the WIlliams had a weird tone that sounded like something was rattling in there. Their downshifts and the cylinder cutoff at corners were also much louder, almost as loud as the Honda.

[MrPotatoHead]

I think it's a hydraulic actuator for the wastegate, detached amid disassembly. Held aloft by the rigidity of the hoses it's connected to. As for 'wings', I see only a flange extending toward one side.

I am pretty sure the wastegate actuator is the mechanism further back under that small cover. Can be seen clearer in the hypercar engine pics - it sits right on top of the turbine.

Correct. The wastegate actuator will fit in your hand. It's a very small hydraulic unit.

[godlameroso]

Interesting, are they all hydraulic, or is at least one manufacturer using solenoids to control the wastegates?

[MrPotatoHead]

Interesting, are they all hydraulic, or is at least one manufacturer using solenoids to control the wastegates?

Hydraulic as far as I know.
The level of control (linear and consistent) that the Hydraulic actuators offer is hard to match.

[MrPotatoHead]

Here's a Moog one:

http://www.moog.com/content/dam/moog/li ... eet-en.pdf

[63l8qrrfy6]

Interesting, are they all hydraulic, or is at least one manufacturer using solenoids to control the wastegates?

Gearboxes need hydraulic actuation for shifting so all teams have a hydraulic pump anyway. What's the point of using electric motors when hydraulic actuators are easily 10 times lighter ?

[godlameroso]

Interesting, are they all hydraulic, or is at least one manufacturer using solenoids to control the wastegates?

Gearboxes need hydraulic actuation for shifting so all teams have a hydraulic pump anyway. What's the point of using electric motors when hydraulic actuators are easily 10 times lighter ?

Familiarity? OEMs use solenoids to control wastegates on their turbos, even ones that offer CVTs or automatics or automated manuals. Surely those transmissions have high pressure hydraulic pumps. I suppose the performance is more important than cost in this field which is why hydraulic control is favored? Fair enough, it was just a question.

[MrPotatoHead]

OEMs use solenoids that control air / vacuum that is use to actually control the wastegates.
In the case of F1 they still need electronic control devices / solenoids which control hydraulic actuation of the wastegate.

So essentially they just use hydraulic in the place of air

[roon]

I think it's a hydraulic actuator for the wastegate, detached amid disassembly. Held aloft by the rigidity of the hoses it's connected to. As for 'wings', I see only a flange extending toward one side.

I am pretty sure the wastegate actuator is the mechanism further back under that small cover. Can be seen clearer in the hypercar engine pics - it sits right on top of the turbine.

That area directly above the turbine, with the black cover, looks to have empty spherical joints and maybe a bellcrank. Horizontal motion of the actuator translated to vertical wastegate motion. A robust long-travel actuator might not be out of place in this application, given forces acting on the wastegate and a want for fine control.

As you say, the corresponding area can be seen on the hypercar mockup. I see mechanical linkages but no actuator directly atop the wastegate pipe Y-junction, which itself is atop the turbine. I see airbox CF directly above that, and posit the actuator lies horizontal and longitudinally above the vee, above the MGU-H.

[CriXus]

I am not sure if this is the right thread for my post, but since Michael's Schmidt article is about Mercedes' PU
superiority, i am posting it here.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 87468.html

Mercedes far superior in gas mileage

Ferrari has suffered a sensible defeat in Abu Dhabi. That was not only due to the layout favorable for Mercedes with two long straights. In the race Sebastian Vettel had to save fuel after 20 laps. The World Championship second drove with a view of the gasoline. The Mercedes drivers put down the 55 laps without restrictions.

Abu Dhabi requires maximum downforce. On paper so Ferrari country. In reality, the Mercedes pilots dominated as before only in Monza. Two long straights helped the silver arrows. Thanks to their power advantage they were able to drive more wings than the competition and thus also benefited in the curvy sector 3. Valtteri Bottas took Sebastian Vettel half a second during practice. In the race it was 19.3 seconds. That was not just something to do with the speed advantage. Vettel could only drive full in the first 20 and the last 10 laps. His fastest race lap at the very end was just 0.120 seconds over the best of Bottas. This shows what would have been possible without restrictions. Certainly no victory, but a less painful residue.

It is not the first time that Mercedes has a massive advantage in gas mileage. The Yas Marina Circuit is not even one of the most critical racetracks. They are Melbourne, Montreal or Baku . Abu Dhabi is in the golden middle. Nevertheless, Vettel heard after just over a third of a race warnings that he was with the fuel consumption in the minus. Kimi Raikkonen knew that from Austin, where he had on the gas in the last round so that he could hardly fend off the attacks of Max Verstappen . Nico Hulkenberg had with his Renaultat the season finale the same problem. "Three laps after I overtook Grosjean, the first radio messages came. From then on, I drove to the end with Lift and Coast. "

Mercedes needs 16 liters less in Mexico
Already at the GP Mexico the partly glaring differences between Mercedes and his opponents could be seen. The Mercedes drivers came with 89 kilograms (120 liters) over the distance. Allowed are 105 kilograms. Ferrari needed 101 kilograms (136 liters) of fuel for the 305 kilometers. The big discrepancy may be partly explained by the fact that Mercedes in Mexico has not filled up the tank. In sum, it was better to save 10 kilograms of gasoline, because that brings three tenths per lap. As the Silver Arrows in Mexico were on the defensive against Ferrari and Red Bull, and the autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez was not a motor circuit, the weight gained more lap time.

But you have to be able to do that first. For Ferrari and Renault offered this was no option at all. In Abu Dhabi according to statements of Mercedes engineers was not easy with the gasoline. There was a engine advantage. On this circuit, it would make little sense to use less fuel to save weight. The pace would be slower then. Even Ferrari and Renault teams filled the tank nearly full. Around the pit stops drivers started to operate Lift and Coast. Gasoline consumption in the current efficiency formula is a good indicator of engine performance . The experience of the last race should be a warning for those who want to challenge Mercedes. If you want to beat the silver arrows, you have to catch up on the engine side.

[PlatinumZealot]

So basically, Mercedes engine is so much more fuel efficient in the race that they can start with less fuel to maximize lap-time on weight sensitive tracks such as Mexico.

[CriXus]

I understand why Merc are so angry about the possibility of losing the MGU-H after 2020! That is why their PU is so strong.

[Just_a_fan]

So basically, Mercedes engine is so much more fuel efficient in the race that they can start with less fuel to maximize lap-time on weight sensitive tracks such as Mexico.

Or to summarise further: Mercedes did the best job and others need to catch up.

[Juzh]

So basically, Mercedes engine is so much more fuel efficient in the race that they can start with less fuel to maximize lap-time on weight sensitive tracks such as Mexico.

Or to summarise further: Mercedes did the best job and others need to catch up.

And to summarise even further: Red bull did the best job post 2009 and as a result everything possible was done to stop them. Including changing the engine itself.

[MuseF1]

So basically, Mercedes engine is so much more fuel efficient in the race that they can start with less fuel to maximize lap-time on weight sensitive tracks such as Mexico.

Or to summarise further: Mercedes did the best job and others need to catch up.

And to summarise even further: Red bull did the best job post 2009 and as a result everything possible was done to stop them. Including changing the engine itself.

Re:Engines. I don't think so, the new power units were discussed before Red Bull were the ones to beat, and agreed upon after only their first world championship.