Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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ben_watkins
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Max will not attend the Spanish GP, instead he will attend the Jordan Rally. Shame really, as he'll miss out on the launch of the FIA "anti-racism" initiative ['racing against racism'] at the Spanish GP!!!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66674

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/2/7355.html
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ben_watkins
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Max attempts to get the NOTW video banned from France for some reason..

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/18 ... ues_again/

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66701

€25k per offence? Why would it be banned in France, when the video was shot in London?
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modbaraban
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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ben_watkins wrote:Max attempts to get the NOTW video banned from France for some reason..

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/18 ... ues_again/

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66701

€25k per offence? Why would it be banned in France, when the video was shot in London?
Why France anyway? I mean there are lots of other countries.... like say Germany :D

Treead
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Isn't Paris where they'll be doing his extraordinary general meeting? Sounds like he might be trying to close the door so that it might be illegal to show the video during the meeting.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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I have been interested in the who dunnit angle for some time and I do enjoy reading Mike Lawrence.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... fes_page=3

I actually think that Max will be dismissed in June. Still I'd like to know who set him up.
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Ciro Pabón
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Well, I have a conspiration theory I half invented, half read at other sources much more interesting than Pitpass. After all, it's not difficult to be more interesting than that... sorry, WhiteBlue, but I also have an opinion on them. ;)

Besides, the feeble attempts to spice the affair that Mr. Lawrence raises, as a responsible journalist, pale in comparison with the mistery and gossip we can raise here, as somewhat irresponsible forumers. So, I take off my "moderator cape", the one with the F1Technical logo emblazoned, and I start to pound at my keyboard. Thank heaven I can touch-type, because this is going to be long: it's time to get a coffe, if you're going to read through all of this.

My theory: Ecclestone did it. With the candleholder in the library... :D

Why do I think like that? I have no proof at all, so please, take this as a novel, pure literature, not as anything I can prove or that even I think seriously. It's just a tale for your amusement. Well, almost. I haven't lied, I've just jumped to conclusions, you could say.

First, how was Mosley elected?

For those who did not follow the "previous novel", I'll try to resume what I remember, I'm sure I will receive plenty of corrections. Perhaps donskar and the other veterans, like me, could help here.

In the last "true" election, Mr. Ballestre designated Ecclestone as his personal delegate to get him the votes. Ballestre was convinced, up to the day of the election that he had 60% of the votes. Meanwhile, Ecclestone was busy behind curtains getting votes for his candidate, Mr. Mosley.

Ballestre was "livid" when the election took place and he realized that he had been duped.

After Mosley was elected, he choose ostensibly a bunch of guys "empowered" to sell the TV rights. I said ostensibly because he was too involved with Ecclestone: he made all the necessary gestures to prove that he had nothing to do with the negotiation. Ballestre was defending 20% of the money for FIA. After Mosley was elected, we all know that FIA ended selling the rights for 300 million for 100 years, roughly three times the McLaren penalty. Ecclestone became a rich man the day he ****ed Ballestre, didn't he? End of first rant, ehem, I mean, first part.

Second, Mosley do not receive any money from his job as FIA president. I wonder who he depends for money. If, and that's a long if, if Mosley depends on Ecclestone, is understandable that Mosley could wish to get some financial independence after having devoted most of his adult life as an adjutant to Ecclestone. After all (see point 1) Ecclestone fortune apparently depended on Mosley manouvers.

Third, Mosley has become more and more independent from Ecclestone as time has passed: it's natural. He has a solid bureaucratic base at FIA. The few guys (a couple of french persons) that opposed him were quietly disposed some years ago. Mosley is (was) almost sure that he would become FIA president again. He was a whirlwind of activity: new regulations sprouted every day, he met sheiks, entrepreneurs, new ventures, agreed with manufacturers on some sort of shadowy arrangement that replaced the Concorde. He declared that the Concorde Agreement would be replaced when he met with the head of manufacturers a couple of years ago.

Then, suddenly, he remembered the teams that there was no agreement signed at all: they were competing by the grace and permisiveness of FIA, nothing more. They don't have anything in writing, so he would be the dealer in the next deal. That's a strong negotiating position, I think.

Fourth, I'm sure that Ecclestone must have a candidate already. Mr. Ecclestone can be called many names, but "fool" is not one of them. If (and that's another long if) I were in Ecclestone position, I would try to make Mosley to stand as long as possible, to offer Mosley's head as a "sacrificial lamb", for the clubs to compromise on my true candidate. After all (see point 1 above) it wouldn't be the first time.

If (another if full of gossip, I concede) Mosley position is untenable, perhaps the only one who can sacrifice this pawn for a queen is Ecclestone.

The rumours leaked about Mosley wanting to "negotiate" his exit are lame. Pure bull manure. Who acts like that? If you want to negotiate your golden parachute, you do it behind closed doors, not after an assembly has voted on no confidence. You negotiate your quiet, quick exit for some money before the Board expels you in disgrace. What's he going to negotiate after a negative vote? And if the vote is positive, why negotiate? Some journalists think we're morons, I'd say.

Now, Ecclestone has been the first to call "disrespect for F1" for anything under the sun. His money depends entirely on the reputation of the sport. How come that right now he has lost his north? Mosley not renouncing the same day he was caught is unthinkable for the bankers and Ecclestone: every day he stays, F1 reputation is damaged. The case has appeared in every comedy program in american TV. Most of the clubs have announced they will vote for someone else. F1 is the ridicule of the sporting world: I'm not talking about "disrespect", I'm talking of the "laughing stock".

Then, why the half hearted support from Ecclestone? Has Alzheimer set in already? I don't think so, on the contrary: Mosley is just cannon fodder in the real battle that will be fought in June.

Fifth, no one, no one on Earth, not even his wife, ehem, knows Mosley's tastes more than Ecclestone, his partner of many years. No comments on that, but why would Ecclestone need a detective to follow Mosley? I bet Ecclestone has known Mosley's house for many years, I bet they have had many parties together. You don't invent something as ellaborate as "Mosley's rituals" in one day, btw. Now, try to convince me that Bernie wasn't aware of Mosley's particular sexcapades. C'mon the guys know each other since the times of "free love" and hippies. Those were other times, people spoke freely then, at least I did.

Do you want more proof? I'm sure that at this point, the few souls that have read this post now remember where they read most of it (most, not all) and have joined all the dots.

So, Bernie did it. It's the only one that can get any benefits from Mosley's fall, and, as Sherlock Holmes said, look for the one that benefits. ;)

Do you think I can work for NOTW? Perhaps I can write something in the style of Agatha Christie, at least.

I only hope Tomba does not ask me to erase my own post. He could, btw, so read it before the men-in-black from FIA appear at my doorsteps.

Oh, no, they are already here. No, not the moderator cape! Anything but that! Tell my wife.... arrgh.
Ciro

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checkered
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Ciro Pabón wrote:Do you think I can work for NOTW?
That, in fact, could

be rather hard. First of all, your language probably is too longwinded, high minded and complicated for such a publication. One has to take special care in limiting one's vocabulary in every other respect than those needed in going below the navel or striking below the belt. Therein you need to find great variety, since at the very minimum you'll have to raise such issues in every other sentence, no less.

And while the text in your articles is wholly subservient to a scrapbookish layout of pictures of varying quality, repeating phrases such as "entangled in a binge-fuelled lathersome horizontal mambo" a couple of dozen times over will induce tedium even among the most dedicated aficionados of "adult reality journalism". The exception of course being when you need to drive a point home, then you take care in consciously repeating a sufficiently distinctive word like, I don't know, "deprived". And print it in bold letters, just so that it couldn't possibly be lost in an otherwise disorienting environment.

On a wider note, by any chance, have you expressed an opinion to Automovil Club de Colombia yet on how they should vote? And no, you don't have to answer/comment on that! But since we're going out on all sorts of tangents here, I'm thinking that if there's ever going to be a biographical movie made of Mosley, he should be played by James Spader. Not shy of controversial projects and bearing a fleeting physical resemblance to Max even, he has already held down roles which cannot be slapped with an easy label among the thespian arts.

At least I perceive some quite striking parallels there.
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." - Yogi Berra

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Ciro Pabón
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Well, thanks for the comment.

If this is an excuse, you have to think I write "in spanish". You wouldn't believe how hard I try NOT to use latin words nor spanish grammar ("preocupation" for "worry", "explained" for "told", "I have had" for "I had", not so many "that"s, etc.)

In spanish, most english sounds very simple. It sounds like "barking" or that's what Caesar said, long time ago. It forces you to miss the fine points. I'm sure latin speakers get what I try to say. How you tell the difference between "ser" and "estar"?

Sorry, anyway. Point taken. There is people here translating from English to their own languages. Many things must be lost during that.

English native speakers must think I do it on purpose. It's not what I intend. I use bold type to mark the phrases that sum up the post. Modbaraban has complained already. I think he has not used them to skip through the post.

I won't deprive myself of writing more stuff like this, :) but I swear I will study rules for "Simple English Wikipedia". Next time I will erase everything except words in bold. No more thre sy-lla-bles words. No more phrases over six words.

Thanks again, here you have a new version:

- Bernie pushed Max as president to get money. Lots of money.
- Max is penyless and depends on Ecclestone
- Max has some independence now
- Bernie must have another person as candidate
- Bernie has already be a traitor to other president
- Bernie must know Max little secrets
- Bernie is the one that can deal with others in case Max is fired
- A "short election" only benefits Bernie

The ACC does not need my input. They know what to do: they'll bend over, like I do sometimes. They don't cringe any more because there aren't thinner carpets (as we say in spanish). They'll play Bernie's game. I think we do the same in this very thread. :wink:

WhiteBlue can be right, anyway. Perhaps there is a "Third Man". It will dawn and we will see (another spanish phrase).
Ciro

Project Four
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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First F1 driver to come out strongly against Mosley. Should have guessed that it would be most un-PC driver and the one who does speak his mind. Step Mr Mark Webber.

Mark Webber has accused Max Mosley of bringing the sport into disrepute following allegations about his private life.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 355991.stm

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Ciro, I can't see how Bernie profits from Max concluding his term early. Why would he not play his game at the time when succession will come anyway?

Bernie has the 100 year deal anyway and thanks to Max he hasn't got to deal with the team veto in rule discussions anymore. so one hassle is gone. but he has the residual little problem that in commercial issues single teams still got muscle and can stall things. He has ridiculed the idea of veto power many times and thinks that only dictatorship will work instead of the concord. now with Max at the FIA he has the guarantee that they will not have much clout to force him to pay for rule changes that he thinks necessary for his business.

What is the profit for Bernie if Max is replaced by another Bernie puppet if Mosley is already a puppet? It can only be something that Max pursues by his own conviction and that Bernie thinks is very detrimental to his business. I do not see that particular issue.

Quite contrary Max secured the continuation of manufacturers pumping 1,5 bil $ anually into the business. He bent the teams arms to address the downforce/slicks issue to make the show better.

Really the only thing that would be nice to have would be the right to determine the race venues without FIA interference and the have change of control of FOM without FIA placet. would that be a motivation to set up Max?

I don't know. I think there are bigger fish to fry and motives to screw Max. how about getting even? or how about having the next FIA president sign the concord with veto rights for the teams again? that would be something someone might be prepared to put up some grands.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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Rob W
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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"Sex scandal drives Porsche away"
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 18,00.html

What a joke and what poor reporting also. A team which hasn't, in modern history, had anything to do with F1, nor had shown any real interest in F1 comes out and says they will steer clear of it over this???? (unless, as is often, the newspaper just made the conclusion from a statement which didn't really paint it quite like that)

What a totally weird and misguided piece of PR. It served no purpose except to show what a lame bunch the people who represent Porche are that they felt a need to comment at all. :roll:

I'm over this totally. The FIA and Max can sort it out and be done with it..

(Also re: a much older post of mine... I still think there's a chance Bernie set him up..)

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axle
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Project Four wrote:First F1 driver to come out strongly against Mosley. Should have guessed that it would be most un-PC driver and the one who does speak his mind. Step Mr Mark Webber.

Mark Webber has accused Max Mosley of bringing the sport into disrepute following allegations about his private life.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 355991.stm
I'd actually say DC speaks his mind more...but that's just splitting hairs!
- Axle

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checkered
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Ciro Pabón wrote:I won't deprive myself of writing more stuff like this, :) but I swear I will study rules for "Simple English Wikipedia". Next time I will erase everything except words in bold. No more thre sy-lla-bles words. No more phrases over six words.
Ciro, for Heaven's

sake, I wasn't criticising your content or your style! I was only reflecting on what, say, an editor in a yellow press publication might require of you. In fact, I find it extremely interesting and enriching that expressions from various languages can seep into one another in a sort of a "cross pollination of thought". I've always held that we need to guard the diversity of languages because therein we guard a whole spectrum of intellectual latitude that a single "lingua franca" simply cannot sustain. Mechanistic translations are just as prone to lose the nuance as the rationale behind expressions; but trodding the line between cultures is fruitful, for there we're invited beyond language - to thought and emotion itself. Sometimes we succeed, sometimes not. Play with languages, Ciro, play with them without fear or apprehension. As St. Augustine noted (in your link) it may not be the easiest of paths, but perhaps the more rewarding one.

On topic still, if Bernie is indeed behind this, should we not expect that it will also become very obvious before long? Reading the precedents you list this might be presumed to be the case. Given Ecclestone's position, it is terribly easy for him to whip up trouble - a careless word within earshot of Max's sworn adversaries can see a host of proverbial Macbethian servants of Hecate creak ajar the gates to a dungeon of public opinion. The walls of that popular establishment stand firm and tall with the bricks our countless minds, bound together by the mortar of media that without us is but an undescript heap of powder. Nonetheless, as in any good tragedy the protagonist designed his own downfall, assembled every bit of material, animosity and talent around himself to execute the plans and finally willingly stepped into the middle of that torment as if he wasn't the crux of his own entirety. What a curious caleidoscope of existentialism the center stage is, how great the allure to remain even when the sharp ends of the geometry whirling around you start to cut. Leave the vortex behind and it breaks apart by your movement, blown with the wind to settle into other symmetries. But oneself remains, and goes on.

If it wasn't Bernie, there's really no shortage of candidates, is there? Toying with subjects so basic, so emotive as human sexuality, is risky for Ecclestone as well and the man is quite widely recognised as being motivated by what remains under the bottom line only. It's possible, I guess, that he had no intention to satisfy his purpose quite so literally. Some of the exchanges during and leading to Formula One's bondage to various aspects of Mosley's person seem awfully quaint to me, the sorts of tit-for-tat retorts one might've expected to hear flung circa 1930s around some cobblestoned courtyards of educational institutions as swathed in intellectual patina alone as to appear impervious to the most caustic of comments: "You certified halfwit, you!" "Spoken like a truly deprived pervert!" You know, langue that, if directed at a person such as myself - being used to more universal phrases and symbols applied - induces inquisitiveness rather than indignance. This is something that I reflected on, after Justin Webb had noted in his BBC blog that the tough stuff (a video labelled "Younger than McCain", listing things such as Coke in a can and McDonald's) in US elections is starting.

Oh well, better take a breather before seeking the next insofar unwitting tangent to go on. Hey, almost forgot, Pitpass.com has a unique angle on Porsche's/VW's comments on Formula One in "Pots and black kettles". Depending on the perspectives of predilections there'd seem to be some common ground after all - not to mention common challenges. Time for a quick rethink?
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." - Yogi Berra

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Just to make sure that we have a record of the source I'll give you a link for the full telegraph interview here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... ley120.xml

what are new points or old points worth remembering?

1. NOTW or the people behind the investigation aparently bought or blackmailed only one of the women, probably Mistress Switch

2. Bernie is still praised by Max (not fully consistent with Ciro's theory)

3. It looks like nothing is done about voting at the FIA. This means 50,000,000 AAA menbers will have the same vote as the Zürich tent club of 400 memebers. Hey they can't make it that easy.

4. The trial is after the FIA vote. A real pitty.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

ben_watkins
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Re: Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

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Jean Todt has put himself right into the front running for taking over the FIA presidency...

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx ... 2&PO=42342

:evil:
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