2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

[sosic2121]

The stewards got it wrong is the issue. He should have been told to hand back the position. If he refused to do so, he should have been given a penalty which meant he handed back the position & some...

I don't blame Renault or Hulk, I blame the stewarding.

Yeah, the stewards again are a bunch of cowboys! If Hulk gave the position back, he would probably not been able to pass the Force India, Lap 1 was his only chance, so Force India were hard done by!
Stewards all need sacking, and get a group of new ones together who go to every race, and if they make bad calls they know they will be sacked.

The stewards are consistent, consistently wrong!

The thing is. They are consistent in that they gave Verstappen the same penalty (I didn't agree with that penalty but still). However as this was on the first lap it needed to be dealt with differently as in this case there was plenty of time to ask Hulk to just give it back. In fact he was close enough right up to the pit stops for that order to be given.

But as we know from last years Mexican gp, there is no reason for hulk to obey to that order from stewards.

[foxmulder_ms]

If you pass someone outside track limits the penalty has been always 5 seconds, no?.

[Sieper]

Yes, but If you can then win more then 5 sec’s (as you are no longer stuck behind a slower driver) you have still overtaken him. Which does not seem completely Fair.

[drunkf1fan]

If you pass someone outside track limits the penalty has been always 5 seconds, no?.

No it hasn't, for one thing the 5 and 10 second penalty were brought in relatively recently. Passing off track was always told to give the position back, if you don't you get a penalty. before the 5/10 second penalty were brought in the way to push a driver back behind the guy he passed off track they gave a drive through to force them backwards if they chose to be idiots and not give the place back.

The 5/10 second penalties were brought in to give smaller options for some penalties. They were never brought in to replace penalties like that though. Again the intention was give up the place voluntarily or get a penalty to make you give the place back. Somehow the stewards decided a penalty that wouldn't force him to give the place back was sensible when it absolutely never was.

Stewards are just misusing the options for 5/10 second penalties in recent years and letting this passing while off track get out of hand.

Stewards have always somewhat conveniently used time penalties to establish a fair order when something happened in the final few laps of a race. In Verstappen's case he wasn't given 5 seconds because he passed off track, he was given 5 seconds because they could see from the finishing times that 5 seconds would force the place to be given back. It was incorrect, they should have given him a 15 second + penalty precisely so future stewards don't look at that decision and base a future decision off it.

Stewards are setting themselves up for a situation in which drivers who are stuck behind a slower car will just always pass off track, cut a corner and won't ever be actually punished for it. 100% the wrong decision and I'm angry that nothing was done to fix the decision after the race via formal complaints and a review of the situation.

[foxmulder_ms]

I dont know, I feel like some of you guys making too much of this. Maybe I like Hulk too much, hahhaa. I remember quite a few instances where 5sec time penalties were given which did not change the order before. I mean I do not see much of a special case about this instance. You can argue morally but I think there isn't inconsistency about the penalty.

[F1Krof]

Why was Gasly so furious at the end? He was swearing and moaning? What happened?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trfSIOp3EcQ

[Restomaniac]

I dont know, I feel like some of you guys making too much of this. Maybe I like Hulk too much, hahhaa. I remember quite a few instances where 5sec time penalties were given which did not change the order before. I mean I do not see much of a special case about this instance. You can argue morally but I think there isn't inconsistency about the penalty.

Indeed and every time this kind of stupid decision is made the same correct amount of questioning of it happens.

[turbof1]

I recently rewatched the 2010 European GP where Hamilton marginally was too late with overtaking the safety car before the safety car line, which earned him a drive through penalty. Normally that would have set him back significantly as he was running 2d and the safety car bunched up the whole field.

However, while everybody pitted Kobayashi stayed out on was running 3d at the time, slowing the pack down heavily behind him. Combined with the stewards taking a long time to get to the decision of handing out the drive through, Hamilton managed to carve out just a large enough gap to Kobayashi to exit the pit straight ahead of him. Ferrari and Alonso were absolutely furious about that and slammed the "light" penalty (even though a drive through by current standards is a very heavy penalty!).

So yeah, people are always going to complain when a penalty ultimately had no visible impact. Given Hulkenberg was able to do sort of what Hamilton did, you can debate Hulkenberg had the pace anyhow to get by in a fair manner. It's also difficult to judge what should be punished: the advantage he gained by cutting the corner solely, or that he was also able to use his pace surplus and extent the gap. In the first case you are punishing the mistake, in the second the actual advantage he got out of it.

[Restomaniac]

I recently rewatched the 2010 European GP where Hamilton marginally was too late with overtaking the safety car before the safety car line, which earned him a drive through penalty. Normally that would have set him back significantly as he was running 2d and the safety car bunched up the whole field.

However, while everybody pitted Kobayashi stayed out on was running 3d at the time, slowing the pack down heavily behind him. Combined with the stewards taking a long time to get to the decision of handing out the drive through, Hamilton managed to carve out just a large enough gap to Kobayashi to exit the pit straight ahead of him. Ferrari and Alonso were absolutely furious about that and slammed the "light" penalty (even though a drive through by current standards is a very heavy penalty!).

So yeah, people are always going to complain when a penalty ultimately had no visible impact. Given Hulkenberg was able to do sort of what Hamilton did, you can debate Hulkenberg had the pace anyhow to get by in a fair manner. It's also difficult to judge what should be punished: the advantage he gained by cutting the corner solely, or that he was also able to use his pace surplus and extent the gap. In the first case you are punishing the mistake, in the second the actual advantage he got out of it.

I get that. But that is down to pure luck. Hamilton was given the heaviest penalty available as you say so the Stewards pretty much nailed him to the floor. The extreme delays is stewarding decisions sometimes is a totally different Kettle of fish and one that always makes me question the validity of some outcomes.

If Drivers knew the outcome was going to be 'give it back' EVERYTIME there is a good chance Hulk wouldn't have even bothered trying it. But whilst we have this strange sliding scale from race to race and incident to incident drivers will try it. Let us be honest here Renault needed the points and they rolled the dice only because the stewards have shown in the past that a dice roll can possibly work.

It like having parents that don't sing from the same hymn sheet. If you don't show consistancy then the kids will happily run amok until you do.

[Vasconia]

Liberty media are trying to add more races to F1. They'd do just fine if they subtract tracks like Abu Dhabi.

I agree with you.

Unfortunately Liberty Media love money as much as Bernie did, so that seems unlikely while the emirs are willing to pay.

Since they have so much money, why don't they demolish this ridiculous Tilkodrome and build a proper F1 track on top of it?

It seems that they are going to modify one corner, that´s all. What can we expect with Tilke?

[Vasconia]

What’s the deal.. Hulkenberg got a penalty and served it.. it took them even lounger due to the rear right tyre not comming off properly.

Perez had all the chance in the world to repass Hulkenberg- but didn’t..

Great move by Renault and Hulkenberg- and they had like 6milion reasons to do it.

But it was so easy for the stewards to tell Hulk, "you have to give the position back now". Probably this would have costed 6 millions to Renault but I think Hulk could have done the same as Carlos did, stay on the track more than Perez and thanks to his better pace overtake him after his pit-stop.

Same end, but without the controversy.

[markovski19]

McLaren still to be testing with Honda in the pre season test here at Abu Dhabi?

Would've loved to see them having a crack at testing with Renault already.

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[Vasconia]

McLaren still to be testing with Honda in the pre season test here at Abu Dhabi?

Would've loved to see them having a crack at testing with Renault already.

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At least with the 2017 PU, that would have been great but its imposible because you need time to adapt your chasis to a very different PU.

Meanwhile, RB is desperately waiting for the 2018´s PU according to Horner.

[dans79]

Meanwhile, RB is desperately waiting for the 2018´s PU according to Horner.

Maybe they will learn from this experience. Always blaming the engine manufacture when it doesn't work out, and taking all the credit when it does, isn't a great way to earn trust or leeway.

[Vasconia]

Meanwhile, RB is desperately waiting for the 2018´s PU according to Horner.

Maybe they will learn from this experience. Always blaming the engine manufacture when it doesn't work out, and taking all the credit when it does, isn't a great way to earn trust or leeway.

I doubt they will, though it would be something logic.