Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

[WhiteBlue]

Jean Todt has put himself right into the front running for taking over the FIA presidency...

how do you arrive at that conclusion from the quote? there is nothing in it to indicate that Todt aspires to the presidency. of course one can speculate, but is supporting someone who is under fire a good tactic to replace him?

Todt is an outsider to the FIA representing the constructors in the WMSC. He hasn't got a vote in the extraordinary general assembly. unless he gets invited by Mosley he will not be there. he has no constituency in the FIA.

If there is a plan to get Todt into the office the scandal must have ruined the timing. it looks to me that it is too late for him to go lobbying.

[ben_watkins]

I reached my conclusion due to the fact Todt is the only person, bar 1, to come out and say Mad Max is a fine FIA president and that being known across the world for having a "nazi style orgy" is fine.. [-X

[mcdenife]

Whiteblue wrote:

what are new points or old points worth remembering?

1. NOTW or the people behind the investigation aparently bought or blackmailed only one of the women, probably Mistress Switch
.......

Not that it matters, but you state this as if its fact
rather than 'according to Max'. Plus why is it worth remembering? That it may or may not have been a trap is irrelevant.

[WhiteBlue]

Whiteblue wrote:

what are new points or old points worth remembering?

1. NOTW or the people behind the investigation aparently bought or blackmailed only one of the women, probably Mistress Switch
.......

Not that it matters, but you state this as if its fact
rather than 'according to Max'. Plus why is it worth remembering? That it may or may not have been a trap is irrelevant.

I havn't stated it as fact. I have said aparently....

it may be irrelevant for you. it certainly isn't for the many people who want to know what happened. I confess that I am one of them. if interested parties (with a certain likelyhood from F1) have used criminal methods to discredit Mosley I would appreciate to see those people identified and punished.

I would like to see a clean uncorrupted process of electing the next president of the FIA and a respectable and capable person at the helm of the motorsport governing body. if the trappers are not exposed we don't know what other dirty little games they will play in the future.

and since we are at confessions I would like to add that the FIA needs a new voting system IMHO. it is unacceptable that 50 million people are represented by the same voting power as 400. as long as this practise continues the result of FIA elections lack legitimacy in my view.

[Ciro Pabón]

I believe that you can make infinite theories. I choosed Bernie as an improbable one because it's the least controversial.

For a journalist the mere affair is reason enough. Sure Mosley wants them punished too, but I think a libel trial is not very interesting, to say the least.

FIA will take a decission. They need the time to take one that is not rushed. They won't take too much time so people don't feel they are procrastinating on the issue.

In a little more than a month we will know if Mosley continues to preside FIA, I'm sure it will be for the good of all.

I've heard many names, Todt among them. He wouldn't be a bad choice, but I don't know if it's his time. I doubt he himself knows if it reall is... It's not an easy job, specially for anyone tied to team.

In case Mosley gets a no confidence vote, does anybody knows if the next president will have a full term?

And, how much time will the FIA take for the election to happen? Do the statutes say something?

I don't think that they are going to elect a guy the same day, probably they should nominate a Vicepresident of the Senate or someone like that meanwhile, in case of a no-confidence resolution.

BTW, even with the scandal, I think Mosley hasn't been such a bad president. He certainly rode through difficult times.

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.fia.com/thefia/statutes/Files/index.html

if Mosley falls his replacement will be elected by the assembly if I remember right. I'm positive that the successor is only elected for the rest of the term.

we will probably know very soon because the agenda for the assembly must be sent soon. it will probably leak. it would be very surprising if the replacement vote wouldn't be on the agenda. probably they would use a constructive vote of no confidence. by this method you cannot just dismiss a president. you can only replace him with a more suitable candidate who must obviously be nominated and supported properly.

Edit for adding from §12 of the statues:

If, in the course of his term of office, the President of the FIA is permanently prevented from fulfilling his duties, or if he resigns, the Senate shall convene an Extraordinary General Assembly for the election of the President alone, to be held no less than 2 months and no more than 4 months from the date of such prevention or resignation.


This Extraordinary General Assembly shall elect, for the remainder of that term of office, the President of the FIA from among the candidates that the FIA member clubs will propose to fill that position. This residual term of office shall not count as a term of office for the purposes of the last sentence of Article 19.

[Project Four]

Max will not attend the Spanish GP, instead he will attend the Jordan Rally. Shame really, as he'll miss out on the launch of the FIA "anti-racism" initiative ['racing against racism'] at the Spanish GP!!!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66674

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/2/7355.html

After Mosley decided to go to the WRC Jordan, rather than the Spanish GP, where he feared any chance meeting with King Juan Carlos would create embarrassment, he is going to be publically ignored by King Abdullah of Jordan, whom will not receive him officially during his visit.

According to the UK newspaper ‘The Times’

“ senior officials in Jordan would prefer it if the visit did no go ahead, given the widespread revulsion at Mr Mosley’s conduct, which has shocked Formula 1 and the boardrooms of the big car manufacturers.

The officials are said to feel indebted to Mr Mosley because of the key role he played in ensuring that Jordan was given the choice to stage the rally and feel that they have no choice but to entertain him”

[mcdenife]

whiteblue wrote:

I havn't stated it as fact. I have said aparently....

it may be irrelevant for you. it certainly isn't for the many people who want to know what happened. I confess that I am one of them. if interested parties (with a certain likelyhood from F1) have used criminal methods to discredit Mosley I would appreciate to see those people identified and punished.

Actually it is irrelevant for most people if not you would certainly have heard from them. So far the sources of support number....3. Max claims about 7 voices of support for every one of those calling for him to do the right thing but we only have his word and we have all heard about Max's dubious "impeccable sources". To criminally discredit Max is to suggested that he has been framed for something he has not done. If a man is tricked in entering anothers premises illegally and he subsequently takes/steals/damages something he cannot claim he was tricked into taking/stealing or damaging something.
Well he may have been trapped but he was not forced/coerced (spelling?) TO DO ANYTHING. He broke the 11th commandment, "thou shalt not get caught". The invasion of privacy aspect is between Max and whoever allegedly invaded his privacy. It is not for the FIA to determine whether or not his privacy has been illegally invaded. I have no problems with his 'proclivities'as long as they remain private but this is no longer private and the 'why' is irrelevant. This is what he has to say about the woman he CLAIMS set him up:

The other four I think are shocked that this has happened. It's just something you don't do. And you see, you have to understand that all of those women are into this, it's not as though they were sort of off the street and asked to do something unpleasant in return for money. You don't betray your friends and people you do things with. This she has done, and she will obviously be ostracised by all sorts of people, but I just think it's something that most people wouldn't do for any amount of money.

I cringe every time I read that. What happened to going quietly with whats left of your dignity and pride. The man has no shame. He talks about ostracision, untrustwothiness and unpleasantness. Well quite a few find this (and him)unpleasant.
Whether his wife and family knew about his proclivities or not, he got caught. So those closest to him or his loved ones, this is unpleasant at best. Unpleasant and untrustwothy at worse (to put it very mildly). As said before these are not qualities one looks for in any leader.

He seems to think it implies support for him that the "heavyweight" in motorsport have not said anything. They say there is no fool like an old fool. If he really believes that then you really have to question his sanity in additions to his judgement.

[WhiteBlue]

whiteblue wrote:

I havn't stated it as fact. I have said aparently....

it may be irrelevant for you. it certainly isn't for the many people who want to know what happened. I confess that I am one of them. if interested parties (with a certain likelyhood from F1) have used criminal methods to discredit Mosley I would appreciate to see those people identified and punished.

Actually it is irrelevant for most people if not you would certainly have heard from them.

I don't claim to be so important or famous that people fill my mail box with their opinions about the Mosley scandal. on the other hand I carefully read and take notice what is being said and what is not said.

Dr. Mario Theissen representing BMW Sauber F1 and BMW AG in motorsport has said that the public want to know who set up Mosley.

Mike Lawrence a senior motorsport commentator for many years has expressed his doubts that all this has been instigated by NOTW.

To criminally discredit Max is to suggested that he has been framed for something he has not done.

I may respectfully object to this statement. Max has done distastefull things that make it rather dubious that he will be able to do business on behalve of the FIA with prominent figures of the public life. he hasn't done anything that is illegal. those unknown parties that have alledgedly wire tapped his telefones, hacked his computers mounted a several months long surveillance including video surveillance in private premises are perpetrating illegal acts by publishing the data gained by illegal entry of privacy. Mosley's rights are protected by European law which is applicable in the United Kingdom.

The invasion of privacy aspect is between Max and whoever allegedly invaded his privacy. It is not for the FIA to determine whether or not his privacy has been illegally invaded. I have no problems with his 'proclivities'as long as they remain private but this is no longer private and the 'why' is irrelevant.

Again I'm inclined to respectfully object to this statement. The president of the senat of the FIA has agreed to look into that matter and has called an extraordinary general assembly to take the views of the membership on the issue. Obviously the representative of the FIA membership clubs and associations will also make their judgement if Mosley is fit to finish his term or who will replace him. so the issue will not be decided on F1t board in this thread.

[mcdenife]

Whiteblue wrote:

I don't claim to be so important or famous that people fill my mail box with their opinions about the Mosley scandal. on the other hand I carefully read and take notice what is being said and what is not said.

I did not mean you personally and what is not said is perhaps even more significant.

Whiteblue wrote:

Mike Lawrence a senior motorsport commentator for many years has expressed his doubts that all this has been instigated by NOTW.

Ciro a notable and respected member of this forum also earlier expressed a no less valid opinion as to who might have instigated this. Senior or not Mike is entitled to his opinion or speculation (for that all what it is) and it is no more valid than ciro's.

Whiteblue wrote:

he hasn't done anything that is illegal. those unknown parties that have alledgedly wire tapped his telefones, hacked his computers mounted a several months long surveillance including video surveillance in private premises are perpetrating illegal acts by publishing the data gained by illegal entry of privacy. Mosley's rights are protected by European law which is applicable in the United Kingdom.

Yes not illigal, but distastefull in the eyes of many and not fitting for a president of the FIA. And we only have Max's "impeccable sources" regarding the surveillance claim. To me it seems more like an excercise in deflection...distraction so the eyes cant see what the hands are doing". But then again Max is a master confusionist (AKA slieght of hand). If you cant convince them, confuse them.
Plus I have not see the EU or UK launch an investigation, criminal or otherwise into these alleged illigal activities.
Whiteblue wrote:

Again I'm inclined to respectfully object to this statement. The president of the senat of the FIA has agreed to look into that matter and has called an extraordinary general assembly to take the views of the membership on the issue.

The FIA senate can only look into Max's activities, its consequences and the implications with regards to him continuing as President. We already have him avoiding the Spanish GP so as not to embarrass the king of spain. He will not be meeting the King of Jordan for similar reasons...not welcome. In essence its about his proclivities rather than how they came to light. The eyesore is not what/who pulled down his trousers but what his trousers where hiding.

[WhiteBlue]

... Ciro a notable and respected member of this forum also earlier expressed a no less valid opinion as to who might have instigated this. Senior or not Mike is entitled to his opinion or speculation (for that all what it is) and it is no more valid than ciro's. ....

You disregard the public call by BMW's official condemming the trapping of Mosley by unknown parties. I only support this call. And you deny that such a call was made saying nobody is interested in what happened. Please compare:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66308

Theissen said he was not surprised that Mosley has bucked all calls to resign and fully intends to remain in his role as FIA president.

"Having been in F1 for nine years now, I am not surprised about anything any more," said Theissen. "But let me add one other thing.

"This entire issue is in focus now, but what shouldn't be neglected is it certainly looks like a trap. And that is something which in our view is not acceptable either."

further I recommend to read all of Ciro's comments and you will find that his theory of "Ecclestone did it" was just a parody. we have no clues who did it and can only guess who had an interest. until more information surfaces it isn't usefull to indulge in speculation. if the NOTW receive a stiff penalty for the thing I will applaud as much as I will when the FIA elects an honorable successor to Mosley.

[gcdugas]

Ockham's razor....

Murdoch did it in simple response to Mosley's suit against the Times.

Murdoch has all the muck raking instruments at his disposal 24/7.

Murdoch can sell papers from it all.

Murdoch and Max are in a class of people who delight in destroying their enemies as an expression of their power and rule. Only one winner will survive. The winner won't be Max.

In a few more days the heir apparent will emerge and that will be the end of Max as the manufacturers will have someone to rally behind. Perhaps Dave Richards will fill the role; he certainly has the business sense and stature.

I agree the Porsche comments are irrelevant but they must be understood in the context of the German world. Just as BMW and Mercedes issued a joint statement (no one wanting to stick their necks out alone), there is great motivation for German companies to distance themselves from the ghosts of Nazi past. So Porsche's statement was discrete enough not to make them a target of Max's retribution in other racing series should he survive the scandal, but at the same time it was blunt enough to serve the internal German PC purposes of renouncing Nazism. These ghosts have a long shelf life and are very powerful. In the US we still have the PC crowd equating the Confederate flag with slavery and have been paying black reparations in one form or another ever since. It will be centuries (plural) before the Germans are able to escape the grip of these ghosts. This is just a reality we have to accept and it gives us a clear understanding of the context in which certain comments are being made.

[WhiteBlue]

=D> =D> =D>

the theory has some merits in my view. look who is being counter attacked by Mosley.

[mcdenife]

whiteblue wrote:

further I recommend to read all of Ciro's comments and you will find that his theory of "Ecclestone did it" was just a parody. we have no clues who did it and can only guess who had an interest. until more information surfaces it isn't usefull to indulge in speculation. if the NOTW receive a stiff penalty for the thing I will applaud as much as I will when the FIA elects an honorable successor to Mosley.

I read all Ciro's posts and parody or not it is still as valid as any other SPECULATION and that was my point. Even Theissen himself was merely speculating by stating this looks like a trap..as if it matters and he is naive if he thinks it is relevant whether or not Max was trapped. I think he (Theissen) is merely making what he thinks are the right noises to make in the circumstances...(so the headmaster thinks he is supportive...who knows).

On a personal note, I too for some reason see Bernie's hand in all this. However whether or not this is so, it is still irrelevant the scheme of things

[WhiteBlue]

Please allow me to disagree with your judgement of what is irrelevant. I think we have exhausted our options to come to a shared view by debate.