Halo aerodynamic solutions

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
roon
roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

Aside from the cameras and safety lights, is the halo the only other spec part on these cars? Teams can add a 20mm thick "sleeve" of an shape they like, to what is, underneath, a spec part coming from an outside supplier (who?). Seems odd that the FIA and their supplier can't or won't produce a non-circular section tube for this application. Surely a high aspect ratio ovoid or airfoil section could be engineered crash-worthy for this application. Upon which the teams could add their minor additions.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

roon wrote:
03 Dec 2017, 00:07
Aside from the cameras and safety lights, is the halo the only other spec part on these cars? Teams can add a 20mm thick "sleeve" of an shape they like, to what is, underneath, a spec part coming from an outside supplier (who?). Seems odd that the FIA and their supplier can't or won't produce a non-circular section tube for this application. Surely a high aspect ratio ovoid or airfoil section could be engineered crash-worthy for this application. Upon which the teams could add their minor additions.
i assume since they've hasted it into f1 is which is why they haven't build it , let's say, like the shape of the nose cams for example instead of 'blunt round' shape. so the negative aero effect will need to be accepted and to make it easier, teams are allowed to make aerodynamic solutions to it.

i expect as of 2019 or 2020 that there will have been further development into the shape of the 'ring' itself.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

User avatar
jjn9128
778
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

roon wrote:
03 Dec 2017, 00:07
Aside from the cameras and safety lights, is the halo the only other spec part on these cars? Teams can add a 20mm thick "sleeve" of an shape they like, to what is, underneath, a spec part coming from an outside supplier (who?). Seems odd that the FIA and their supplier can't or won't produce a non-circular section tube for this application. Surely a high aspect ratio ovoid or airfoil section could be engineered crash-worthy for this application. Upon which the teams could add their minor additions.
So the halo itself is a spec part which is being rolled out in all FIA single seater competitions, F1 and F2 getting it in 2018, while Formula 3 and 4 will have to wait until the next chassis cycle in a few years. It is a titanium structure which is manufactured by an external supplier (AFAIK they've not announces who) at a cost of $30,000 per unit (or €30,000 I can't recall which), which is not being subsidised by the FIA so is an expense the teams have to absorb. Not an issue in F1, but potentially more so lower down the single seater ladder. I think a season drive in F3 costs drivers ~$500,000 and F2 well over $1,000,000.

I'm not sure how thick the halo is or what the wall thickness is, but I assume it is formed from pipe bending a tube, then the central pillar is welded on; similar to the initial design the FIA tested...
Image
I have no idea how the front pillar is formed, but it looks like there's a lot of welding on the sides.

Assuming that manufacturing technique I'm not sure if they could use hydroforming or something to create an aerofoil shape from the round bar hoop, unless that is just not possible with the wall thickness of titanium they need for the load cases they tested. You wouldn't want an aerofoil shape to wrap all the way around so what would result would be quite a complex shape too, so I would guess the reason it's a constant thickness bar is for ease of manufacture - but then allowing teams a bit of leeway to tailor the halo to their cars.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

roon
roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
03 Dec 2017, 18:13
It is a titanium structure which is manufactured by an external supplier (AFAIK they've not announces who) at a cost of $30,000 per unit (or €30,000 I can't recall which)...
I need to get some contracts with the FIA.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
03 Dec 2017, 18:13

It is a titanium structure at a cost of $30,000 per unit (or €30,000),
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

30 grand for some welding of a titanium tube!!!! :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

User avatar
jjn9128
778
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

Manoah2u wrote:
05 Dec 2017, 11:49
30 grand for some welding of a titanium tube!!!!
It's F1, they use aerospace bolts at £20 a pop (maybe an exaggeration).
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

User avatar
jjn9128
778
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

roon wrote:
03 Dec 2017, 00:07
Surely a high aspect ratio ovoid or airfoil section could be engineered crash-worthy for this application. Upon which the teams could add their minor additions.
Did you mean something more like this? This is the sort of solution that Mercedes and Haas have been testing with since Hungary, Haas added some VGs on the top surface at Abu Dhabi. I am of the opinion that the McLaren and Toro Rosso 'wings' would make driver egress more difficult than this solution, where at least the drivers can pull themselves out of the car from the hoop.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

marmer
marmer
1
Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
Manoah2u wrote:
05 Dec 2017, 11:49
30 grand for some welding of a titanium tube!!!!
It's F1, they use aerospace bolts at £20 a pop (maybe an exaggeration).
They claim wings cost like £100000
Which compared to the cost of parts is ridiculous they make a cost up due to development time not the cost to produce halo price will plumit once its rolled out as the only costs will be the production. This doesn't happen to normal parts used on a car as they normally develop a new part to replace the old quickly.

Look at back marker teams they don't run out of money mid season due to daft costs to make a wing if the driver destroys it they just reproduce the same model at a much lower cost

roon
roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
05 Dec 2017, 18:17
Did you mean something more like this?
Yeah, but to the structure itself, since +20mm per side for the fairings doesn't provide much of an aspect ratio change. Thanks for the visualization.

User avatar
adrianjordan
24
Joined: 28 Feb 2010, 11:34
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

I couldn't find the other HALO threads, though they're probably there somewhere...

....anyway, has anyone seen the recent advert for Formula E which shows the new FE car, complete with Halo. Doesn't look as bad as I feared....
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

User avatar
NathanOlder
48
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

When are formula e using the halo ? Didnt realise they were.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC

ajprice
ajprice
21
Joined: 07 Feb 2011, 18:05

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

NathanOlder wrote:
31 Jan 2018, 23:41
When are formula e using the halo ? Didnt realise they were.
For 'season 5' starting at the end of this year.
Image

User avatar
NathanOlder
48
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

ajprice wrote:
01 Feb 2018, 08:53
NathanOlder wrote:
31 Jan 2018, 23:41
When are formula e using the halo ? Didnt realise they were.
For 'season 5' starting at the end of this year.
https://b.marfeel.com/statics/i/ps/gas2 ... 85x390.jpg
Thanks
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC

Demetrius
Demetrius
0
Joined: 14 Dec 2015, 17:32
Location: São Paulo, Brazil.

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

In my humble opinion, the halo it's the worst disgrace that has ever happened in F1, and i am shocked that Liberty Media did nothing to prevent this aberration.

roon
roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Halo aerodynamic solutions

Post

Demetrius wrote:
04 Feb 2018, 00:20
In my humble opinion, the halo it's the worst disgrace that has ever happened in F1...
Image