2018 Red Bull vs McLaren

[adrianjordan]

So Renault and Mclaren use BP fuel, while RB uses Exxon mobile?
I see this as potential disadvantage for RB. Maybe the fight between the trio will be closer than expected.

What they use and what is being advertised isn’t always the same

Next you'll be telling me the Red bull isn't powered by an oversized watch!

Shhh...Honda might not be too happy about the secrets of Spec 5 being revealed so soon....

[zoroastar]

toto wolf has stated more than once that he would have liked to have alonso at mercedes. and the fact is, i dont care what ferrari says, if vettel left them they would take alonso in a heartbeat. both teams have a clear #1 driver. they cant just throw alonso in either team without major drama from either vettel or hamilton, because alonso isnt going to any team as a second fiddle like bottas or kimi. you can dislike alonso all you want but hes one of the greats, and vettel or hamilton would have to be nuts to want him as a teammate when they have good, but clearly outclassed teammates already.

If Alonso so magical as you say, why is his choice left him between McLaren (a non-works team from now on), teams like Sauber or the ex-F1-backmarker-competition of Indy? All the big teams had nice seats open..... Non of the works teams seems to want him as a driver anymore... if Mclaren will even pay him what he asks. Don’t forget, they lost their Honda money.

Because teams you refer to have drivers (Vettel and Hamilton) that chickend out and Mclaren will gain money by ditching Honda not lose....by results and sponsors.....and you sound like you watch starts 2 laps after that and last 2 laps of every race.

Yeah... it's all their fault that no team wants to work with him... You should think, with his reputation and such an empty McLaren, there would be at least some Spanish sponsors interested.....

[mertol]

If I were Ferrari I wouldn't care what Vettel would fuss about. He had his chance this year and he failed.

[McHonda]

If you genuinely believe that, good for you.

I do feel that you will be very disappointed on the evening of March 25th 2018.

There will probably be 6 drivers with faster cars 44, 77, 5, 7, 33, 3.

There will be 3 drivers with equal cars 27, 55 , 2.

So i seriously doubt the 14 will be on the podium at all. I also believe the 5 car will be on the grid next year

So Redbull can be one of the favorites whit Renault PU but Mclaren will be behind? Based od last 3 years, whit Honda.
Yes Mclaren is behind RB in chassis this year but not by much and things might change next year, they might still be behind but by very little and there is Alonso to compensate for that, because he is a better driver then Ricciardo or Verstapen, better, smarter and faster and as is getting older the better he is, like vine.
I dont think he will win title next year but he will drag that car to podiums.
ONLY problem i see is possible Renault PU integration problems due to late development start but 2 weeks should not couse to many problems.

Ok, I’ll bite:

RedBull pro’s:
-stable management
-no 100 million gap in the budget
-years of experience in the Renault PU
-can work forward from a know platform, with the restrictions of CFD and Tunnel time very important
-two drivers who have more experience the last few years fighting Vettel, Hamilton and Rosberg then fighting Wehrlein, Ericsson and Palmer
-understanding how to intergtate the PU with gearbox hardware and software and BBW.

Anything else?

McLaren's is stable now.
No gap in budget for 1yr. Honda have already paid for 2018 car. Team bosses agreed to fund 2019 car.
True.
So can McLaren. No change in concept required.
Alonso has all the experience in the world.
True.

[McHonda]

@GoranF1

where do you get the "Alonso is worth 6 tenths" from ??

Alonso has out qualified Vandoorne (a rookie) by 6 tenths or more 4 times this year. This is the same as Hamilton vs Bottas and Bottas is in no way a rookie. SO Lewis must be worth 8 tenths ??

ridiculous, Alonso's strength is his race craft and ability to drive around a problem. This is Alonso's 17th season, and he only has 22 poles. His 1 lap pace is definately not his strong point, where as Max and Ricciardo both excel in that field. Ricciardo put Vettel to shame in 2014, and Max is doing the same to Ricciardo now. And we all know how strong Vettel can be over 1 lap. Riiciardo out qualified Vettel 12:7

I agree Alonso is an amazing race driver, but to say he is faster than Max and Danny is rubbish IMO

It's not a spec series and his cars for the large part haven't been quick over 1 lap but his qualifying record speaks for itself. Less than half a tenth between him and Lewis as team mates and it remained about a tenth when you compare through their time with Button. If you're within a tenth of Lewis Hamilton then you're very quick over a lap in my book

No-one's getting poles in the Minardi,McHonda's and last two Ferrari's he had. Or the Renault's in 08/9 without doing it on fumes. He's had at best one and a half seasons in a car that can challenge to top qualifying with any regularity in 2006/7 and even that doesn't tell the whole story of those years and the competition those cars faced.

It's an unfortunate thing for him in that during his 16 years on the grid we've had dominant cars in 10 or 11 of them. He's also had 4 seasons in backmarkers. His record in the non dominant car years speaks for itself. The closest to a dominant car he had was the beginning of 2006 and he got 5 poles and 6 wins from the 9 races Renault were strongest with the mass damper.

If you've never sat in one of those dominant cars then you're not getting the poles and the guys who have been sitting in them are too good to let that car advantage they've had over him go to waste.

We've no idea who's quicker over a lap between Alonso,Max and Dan as they've never had comparable cars or share a common team mate. (The closest you can get is through Seb and then Kimi which is a bit of a stretch). Hopefully we'll get an answer this year but it wouldn't surprise me if he's quicker at all.

[NathanOlder]

You have just partially backed up my statement. 11 years ago, Lewis was out qualifying Alonso, as a rookie while Alonso was the double world champion. Since then, Alonso wouldn't have gained speed over 1 lap. He would have probably lost a fraction. So if Alonso is worth 4 tenths as someone previously stated, Lewis was worth 5 tenths when then were together in 07. So now Lewis is probably worth 7 tenths ?


Its all a load of rubbish, no driver is worth 0.001! Let alone 4 tenths!! All a driver could do if he was perfect is to not lose any time.

If a car could do a 1.30.000 then the best drivers may get a 1.30.250 ? out of it. So Alonso is actually more likely not worth 4 tenths, he's probably losing 3 tenths.

[McHonda]

You have just partially backed up my statement. 11 years ago, Lewis was out qualifying Alonso, as a rookie while Alonso was the double world champion. Since then, Alonso wouldn't have gained speed over 1 lap. He would have probably lost a fraction. So if Alonso is worth 4 tenths as someone previously stated, Lewis was worth 5 tenths when then were together in 07. So now Lewis is probably worth 7 tenths ?


Its all a load of rubbish, no driver is worth 0.001! Let alone 4 tenths!! All a driver could do if he was perfect is to not lose any time.

If a car could do a 1.30.000 then the best drivers may het a 1.30.250 out of it. So Alonso is actually more likely not worth 4 tenths, he's probably losing 3 tenths.

Yeah the 6ths thing wasn't something I agree with at all, I view it as a bit of a joke. When Alonso said it I took it as he just means he brings performance others couldn't type of thing. The poster thst brought it up here can speak for himself about that but I'm talking about the 22 poles in 16 seasons you mentioned and alleged lack of 1 lap pace.


Lewis was a rookie yes but Alonso was new to the team and new to Bridgestones and the driving style needed to make them work as well so there's fair reason to assume both could improve in settled circumstances. Alonso did so in his 2nd years at both Ferrari and McLaren later on.

Not sure we've seen any evidence of a decline from him yet and I'm just saying they were half a tenth apart back then and even through their time with Button years later they come out around a tenth difference between them. (They both beat Button by a similar margin is what I mean so we don't have to go back 10 years). Both suggest a slight edge to Lewis over a lap but not by much.

Anyway I'm just saying there's not much evidence of a lack of 1 lap pace basically, and his stats don't tell us much in a non-spec series.

[makecry]

You have just partially backed up my statement. 11 years ago, Lewis was out qualifying Alonso, as a rookie while Alonso was the double world champion. Since then, Alonso wouldn't have gained speed over 1 lap. He would have probably lost a fraction. So if Alonso is worth 4 tenths as someone previously stated, Lewis was worth 5 tenths when then were together in 07. So now Lewis is probably worth 7 tenths ?


Its all a load of rubbish, no driver is worth 0.001! Let alone 4 tenths!! All a driver could do if he was perfect is to not lose any time.

If a car could do a 1.30.000 then the best drivers may het a 1.30.250 out of it. So Alonso is actually more likely not worth 4 tenths, he's probably losing 3 tenths.

Yeah the 6ths thing wasn't something I agree with at all, I view it as a bit of a joke. When Alonso said it I took it as he just means he brings performance others couldn't type of thing. The poster thst brought it up here can speak for himself about that but I'm talking about the 22 poles in 16 seasons you mentioned and alleged lack of 1 lap pace.


Lewis was a rookie yes but Alonso was new to the team and new to Bridgestones and the driving style needed to make them work as well so there's fair reason to assume both could improve in settled circumstances. Alonso did so in his 2nd years at both Ferrari and McLaren later on.

Not sure we've seen any evidence of a decline from him yet and I'm just saying they were half a tenth apart back then and even through their time with Button years later they come out around a tenth difference between them. (They both beat Button by a similar margin is what I mean so we don't have to go back 10 years). Both suggest a slight edge to Lewis over a lap but not by much.

Anyway I'm just saying there's not much evidence of a lack of 1 lap pace basically, and his stats don't tell us much in a non-spec series.

Brigdestones + CI brakes (After switch to Hitco on Alonso's car, Alonso beat Hamilton in every race apart from Hungary) + Team environment.

But yes.

[dren]

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/15963

3rd in the constructors and winning a race is what Boullier expects... tall order i think.

I agree, that's a tall order. They'll be fighting for 4th. As strong as Ferrari and Red Bull were last year, I don't see them going in a different direction and creating dogs; the same with Mercedes.

The only way Mclaren wins a race is if Vandoorne and Renault collude in Singapore with a crash that gifts Alonso a victory. If Flavio is hanging out in the garage, we'll know it's on.

[HondaRaceReplica]

Mclaren will not be fighting with Red Bull for wins....I predict it right now....They will be fighting for fourth against Force India....This midfield battle might get interesting though and all this drama might make for the best Formula one season in a while

[McHonda]

They'd have won Baku this year with a Renault engine so of course it's possible if things fall your way. Winning on outright pace will be the problem and I don't expect that but Red Bull haven't done it either, Malaysia '17 was the closest but Ferrari were still faster.

If they can get within half a second of the best car any given weekend then you can win in the right circumstances. Nailed quali lap vs poor one putting you ahead and allowing dirty air to keep you there, a strategy call at the right time, bit of magic at the start etc...Lots of different ways if you're close enough.

I think 1 win is doable and a handful of podiums almost certain. Seems McLaren's light chassis will be a big help next year with the added HALO weight, apparently some teams like FI are struggling to keep the car underweight and they are saying they wont be running ballast while McLaren say they can still use ballast so there can't be much between the Renault and Honda weight-wise so that's good (For both )....

"We've had to save weight as much as possible," said McLaren's Eric Boullier. "We [F1] keep putting things on the car. It's as heavy as a dead donkey, as we say in French.

"We're still in a luxury position, we have some ballast. The team is doing a good job of saving weight. You just have to work hard to make your car lighter.

"A lot of teams are struggling, but they already are struggling now [with the 2017 cars], so it's going to be worse for them."

That will also make driver weight an issue again.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13361 ... 1451827965

[techman]

McLaren's is stable now.
No gap in budget for 1yr. Honda have already paid for 2018 car. Team bosses agreed to fund 2019 car.
True.
So can McLaren. No change in concept required.
Alonso has all the experience in the world.
True.

honestly where did u get info about honda paid for 2018.? why should they mclaren broke the contract, infact honda should have asked money from them to breaking the contract.

[McHonda]

McLaren's is stable now.
No gap in budget for 1yr. Honda have already paid for 2018 car. Team bosses agreed to fund 2019 car.
True.
So can McLaren. No change in concept required.
Alonso has all the experience in the world.
True.

honestly where did u get info about honda paid for 2018.? why should they mclaren broke the contract, infact honda should have asked money from them to breaking the contract.

Work on the 2018 car is started and funded in 2017 and Honda's deal ends at the end of this year so yes you could say they've paid for next years car as their money was in the budget.

The bosses at McLaren have agreed as a one year only deal to pay 2018's costs at the same rate as Honda so there will be no shortfall for the 2019 car either.

The effects of the hole in the budget Honda's departure will bring will not be felt on-track until the 2020 car if Zak can't find a sponsor or sponsors to fill in Honda's share 2019.

[techman]

Work on the 2018 car is started and funded in 2017 and Honda's deal ends at the end of this year so yes you could say they've paid for next years car as their money was in the budget.

The bosses at McLaren have agreed as a one year only deal to pay 2018's costs at the same rate as Honda so there will be no shortfall for the 2019 car either.

The effects of the whole in the budget Honda's departure will bring will not be felt on-track until the 2020 car if Zak can't find a sponsor or sponsors to fill in Honda's share 2019.

nice rumour, if that makes u happy.

[McHonda]

Work on the 2018 car is started and funded in 2017 and Honda's deal ends at the end of this year so yes you could say they've paid for next years car as their money was in the budget.

The bosses at McLaren have agreed as a one year only deal to pay 2018's costs at the same rate as Honda so there will be no shortfall for the 2019 car either.

The effects of the whole in the budget Honda's departure will bring will not be felt on-track until the 2020 car if Zak can't find a sponsor or sponsors to fill in Honda's share 2019.

nice rumour, if that makes u happy.

What part do you think is a rumour?