While the technical regulations regarding the power units are going into their 4th stable year, Mercedes' engine Chief, Andy Cowell, has noted there are still gains to be made. Cowell underlined that the key to these continued improvements are Mercedes' proven testing facility.
Only downside is rear brake bias and a propensity for entry lift off oversteer, as a negative torque is acting on the wheels . Granted mapping goes a long way in reducing this, for example a small amount of throttle(computer controlled) is used to nullify MGU-K negative torque, and give a more natural feeling, the downside being slightly higher fuel consumption.
Don't forget there is only a small margin for a difference between the driver requested torque and the output torque, this limits much of what you are describing can achieve.
I wonder about the special modes that are used to achieve that output. 50% thermal efficiency (including power from the MGU-H in self-sustaining mode) is worth 831bhp. If the MGU-H is providing 100bhp, that leaves 60bhp from the ES making a total of 891bhp. Mercedes achieved 50%+ TE on the dyno earlier this year, but are yet to do so on track. The additional 100bhp (they say they are close to 1000bhp) must be born of methods that are not subject to efficiency constraints e.g oil burning (not to say oil burning is responsible for the significant power gains.)
The power mode as you know is not the most efficient:
Use MGUH to power compressor.
Open wastegates to reduce turbine loading and back pressure Disable all forms of battery charging.
Maximum MGUK output.
Work it backwards. 990bhp minus 160 mguk hp. Equals 830 ICE hp to the crankshaft in "Dyno queen mode" not actually sure if they ever achieve max power on the track though....
While true, it almost never happens. ERS-K recovery is never fully disengaged. This can be seen quite easily on the ferrari steering wheel display because they have a very clear energy bar on the bottom, which always goes up a bit on braking events, including quali runs.
But you wouldn't be using full power during braking would you? Electrical energy cannot flow two ways at once.
I wonder about the special modes that are used to achieve that output. 50% thermal efficiency (including power from the MGU-H in self-sustaining mode) is worth 831bhp. If the MGU-H is providing 100bhp, that leaves 60bhp from the ES making a total of 891bhp. Mercedes achieved 50%+ TE on the dyno earlier this year, but are yet to do so on track. The additional 100bhp (they say they are close to 1000bhp) must be born of methods that are not subject to efficiency constraints e.g oil burning (not to say oil burning is responsible for the significant power gains.)
The power mode as you know is not the most efficient:
Use MGUH to power compressor.
Open wastegates to reduce turbine loading and back pressure
Disable all forms of battery charging.
Maximum MGUK output.
Work it backwards. 990bhp minus 160 mguk hp. Equals 830 ICE hp to the crankshaft in "Dyno queen mode" not actually sure if they ever achieve max power on the track though....
I posted something similar in another thread, however it was said the supercharger mode was worth maybe 30bhp, so perhaps its real value is substantially greater.
I honestly detest the 3 engine rule. There should be 5 engines allowed before penalties. I like seeing horsepower wars. I like seeing aero wars. I like seeing lap times get destroyed. I like seeing them go flat out more during the race. I don't like fuel saving. I would like to see cars going faster in the race so the 2 hour races get shorter and shorter because the cars are going even faster during the race. 3 engines means people turning down engines and all that rot. Ugh.
I personally don't want to see cornering speeds increase by much any more. Eau Rouge & Radillion are easily flat already and with the cars gaining another 2 seconds per lap (according to Pirelli) in 2018, Pouhon may no longer be the challenge it once was, the same may be true of Copse.
If I`m not wrong rules say maximum power deployment by the MGU-K to the crankshaft could not exceed 120kW or 160HP any given time! Therefore, ICE alone could be around 840HP had it could reach now 1000HP, but we have to make a distinction between PU`s highest qualy mode and race mode one. From my point of view Andy was referring about the latter coz from the beginning of the year he said they cracked the 1000HP barrier, which logically in hindsight it has to be the peak power output or Q3 PU mode at that time ...
For pedant dudes, crunching some numbers, 1 Kg of gasoline has around 44 MJ LHV. So, at 100Kg/hour fuel flow rate - maximum allowed - we are talking about 4,400 MJ/hour = 1,222.2 kWh/hour or (divided by 0.7457) 1,639 mechanical horse-power. At 50% efficiency it yields 820 HP …
What was missing from this equation is that many are ignoring the fuel factor role in the outcome of ICE power output, maybe coz them have no chemistry knowledge/background … Race fuel in F1 has roughly 0.5% additives and you`ll be amazed how big HP gains could be made with them … just to mention the nano-particles that are born from using UHPLC – Ultra-High Performance Liquid Chromatography – and the fact that both Merc and Renault PU`s has had HP gains in the second part of the season coming exclusively from the fuel, as Christian Horner stated on Sky at Austin race event. That`s the reason they limited to 5 fuel formulations starting from this year on-wards (and for 2018 they downsized to just 3?), had I`m not wrong ...
On another note, now bearing in mind the law of diminishing returns, all manufacturers are fully aware that they can`t gain too much from now on-wards regarding max PU output power and now more than ever they have to be focused on developing a PU which race mode could can run more time near the qualy mode. This is where Merc has had the upper hand to Ferrari last year in the second part of the season, coz in qualy mode the were at the same level ...
And last but not least, having to endure more races per PU in 2018 (this translates that it has to be more reliable), they have to make tough strategically calls next year, opting between reliability or the need to have higher power race modes for longer times in the races ...
If I`m not wrong rules say maximum power deployment by the MGU-K to the crankshaft could not exceed 120kW or 160HP any given time! Therefore, ICE alone could be around 840HP had it could reach now 1000HP, but we have to make a distinction between PU`s highest qualy mode and race mode one. From my point of view Andy was referring about the latter coz from the beginning of the year he said they cracked the 1000HP barrier, which logically in hindsight it has to be the peak power output or Q3 PU mode at that time ...
I don't recall Andy Cowell stating Mercedes had cracked the 1000bhp barrier. Do you have a quote for that?
I always assume the HP figures given as being peak, so when Mercedes provided a statement saying these PUs produce more power than a late V10, I take that as being its peak output.
What was missing from this equation is that many are ignoring the fuel factor role in the outcome of ICE power output, maybe coz them have no chemistry knowledge/background … Race fuel in F1 has roughly 0.5% additives and you`ll be amazed how big HP gains could be made with them
I believe Andy provided a figure a few years ago of 1662bhp being available (instantaneously) from the fuel. Formulations since then will have changed. It should be noted that the ICE back in 2015 was said (by Mercedes) to produce almost as much power (95%?) as the V8s. The V8s produced between 750 to 780bhp I think.
The power mode as you know is not the most efficient:
Use MGUH to power compressor.
Open wastegates to reduce turbine loading and back pressure Disable all forms of battery charging.
Maximum MGUK output.
Work it backwards. 990bhp minus 160 mguk hp. Equals 830 ICE hp to the crankshaft in "Dyno queen mode" not actually sure if they ever achieve max power on the track though....
While true, it almost never happens. ERS-K recovery is never fully disengaged. This can be seen quite easily on the ferrari steering wheel display because they have a very clear energy bar on the bottom, which always goes up a bit on braking events, including quali runs.
But you wouldn't be using full power during braking would you? Electrical energy cannot flow two ways at once.
One would assume so, yes. In terms of max power it doesn't matter whether or not K charging is turned on or off.
the K is busting a gut motoring to help (or not hinder) raising the crank rpm as quickly as possible for the new gear
the work so done by the K motoring clearly increases as the downshifts reach further down the gearbox
(the relative inertias upstream:downstream of the dogs change with each gear and the shift setup 'knows' this)
we also see so-called 'lift-and-coast' means instantly switch from K motoring to K generating well before the braking zone
What i wanr to know is how does the system know it is aend of straight when the driver is still somping hard on the throttle? Must be GPS right?
During that end of straight period too driver somping on throttle.. Overall engine power drops but Mguk and mguh start to charge the battery... Almost like the driver is full bore throttle to make the engine behave more as an air pump (probably ultra lean) to charge the batteries. It implies there is a lot of available power to use at the end of straights as well. (for race mode at least).?
