2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[RedNEO]

I open to discussion, this is a forum, if you don't want to join it don't do it, but don't tell me what to talk about or not because I am free to think and talk of what I want within the rules of the forum and respecting their users.

They finish 2017 with a lost of £10 millions, so starting 2018 with a £90 millions deficit + £10 lost of this year it is a total of £100 millions they have to fulfill. For just an engine that will brings them to be 4th or 3rd team. Big risk if you ask, I hope you are right that Mclaren doesn't need that money. Otherwise you are looking to another Williams case.

Well if they took a loss with Honda’s 60 million that already tells you everything you need to know as to why it made the decision even easier. Doesn’t matter how much Honda paid it won’t fix the fact there engine is awful and cost McLaren championship positions and money. McLaren profit by ditching Honda and fighting at the front with a superior engine and regaining prize money,attracting new sponsors, retaining staff and star drivers. They already have two new sponsors to be announced just by switching. And they have backers who will cover the costs from the Honda debacle.

But as you said "If", also there are two sponsors leaving. 2018 has to go too perfect for them to recover all that money, specially on a market where the interest for F1 is in decline. As I said it is a big risk to swap to just be a 3rd or 4th team on the grid and become a costumer team not a partnership. I hope 2018 goes great for Mclaren as for Honda but I like to be realistic and for now their future economically doesn't look too good from a business point of view. The question is could they they get the hit if 2018 doesn't go as great as they think?

If you were so worried about McLaren losing money then you would support this move away from Honda. When McLaren lap Torro Rosso next year what will you say then? Because according to you Honda isn’t that bad and Torro Rosso will have 60 million so how can they get lapped by a “bankrupt” team?

[Redragon]

Well if they took a loss with Honda’s 60 million that already tells you everything you need to know as to why it made the decision even easier. Doesn’t matter how much Honda paid it won’t fix the fact there engine is awful and cost McLaren championship positions and money. McLaren profit by ditching Honda and fighting at the front with a superior engine and regaining prize money,attracting new sponsors, retaining staff and star drivers. They already have two new sponsors to be announced just by switching. And they have backers who will cover the costs from the Honda debacle.

But as you said "If", also there are two sponsors leaving. 2018 has to go too perfect for them to recover all that money, specially on a market where the interest for F1 is in decline. As I said it is a big risk to swap to just be a 3rd or 4th team on the grid and become a costumer team not a partnership. I hope 2018 goes great for Mclaren as for Honda but I like to be realistic and for now their future economically doesn't look too good from a business point of view. The question is could they they get the hit if 2018 doesn't go as great as they think?

If you were so worried about McLaren losing money then you would support this move away from Honda. When McLaren lap Torro Rosso next year what will you say then? Because according to you Honda isn’t that bad and Torro Rosso will have 60 million so how can they get lapped by a “bankrupt” team?

I answer your post when you bother to read properly my post

[McHonda]

Any confirmation they paid Alonso's salary? Free engines pushes it to about (effectively) 80m and considering it's in Autosport and who owns it I think that's about the best confirmation of Honda's input we have.

Tricky to recoup 80m in one year for Zak for sure but not impossible. If he gets half that and increased prize money if they get 4th it will soften the blow considerably.

Half of the salary is paid by Honda http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/207 ... ndo-alonso

Still only says 'believed to be..' as with every rumour about Honda's input ever did, including the one that said 300m per year.

So we're basically talking about somewhere between 72-95m which will be covered by the bosses (allegedly) for 2018 with Zak needing to find it for 2019.

4th in WCC in 2018 and 2 sponsors would still knock a fair hole in that I think.

[RedNEO]

But as you said "If", also there are two sponsors leaving. 2018 has to go too perfect for them to recover all that money, specially on a market where the interest for F1 is in decline. As I said it is a big risk to swap to just be a 3rd or 4th team on the grid and become a costumer team not a partnership. I hope 2018 goes great for Mclaren as for Honda but I like to be realistic and for now their future economically doesn't look too good from a business point of view. The question is could they they get the hit if 2018 doesn't go as great as they think?

If you were so worried about McLaren losing money then you would support this move away from Honda. When McLaren lap Torro Rosso next year what will you say then? Because according to you Honda isn’t that bad and Torro Rosso will have 60 million so how can they get lapped by a “bankrupt” team?

I answer your post when you bother to read properly my post

I read it. McLaren believe sticking with Honda is a bigger risk especially after the last three years. And when you look at what Honda are saying now about already using 2017 engine to start 2018 season McLaren were right. It’s always the same thing with Honda.

[Redragon]

If you were so worried about McLaren losing money then you would support this move away from Honda. When McLaren lap Torro Rosso next year what will you say then? Because according to you Honda isn’t that bad and Torro Rosso will have 60 million so how can they get lapped by a “bankrupt” team?

I answer your post when you bother to read properly my post

I read it. McLaren believe sticking with Honda is a bigger risk especially after the last three years. And when you look at what Honda are saying now about already using 2017 engine to start 2018 season McLaren were right. It’s always the same thing with Honda.

Still you haven't read properly my post

[NathanOlder]

Mclaren to sign Ericsson & Nasr for 2019 ??

[Manoah2u]

Mclaren to sign Ericsson & Nasr for 2019 ??

lol, well, if things are going like they have been for nearly a decade, it's only a matter of time untill they will go the williams direction and grab a maldonado-like paydriver. Stroll to Mclaren in 2020? With Cosworth power? paired with Bottas?

[diffuser]

So if my calculations are right and based on your comments.

Mclaren loose 60millions from Honda + no more free engines, minimum engines for 2018 is 3 , so 3X£10m = £30millions + add the half salary Honda was paying for Alonso salary which in pounds is £15 millions that's a total of £105 millions that Mclaren have to cover and find after their swap and abandon their partnership with Honda for 2018.

So yep easy to find. specially when you just aspire to be 4th or 3rd team.

Time to face reality fellas.

Ahhh no, the €13m is for all the PUs and the staff to manage them. Doesn't include lubricants and transmission.
From:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13136 ... --mercedes
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/01 ... f-engines/

Still £90 millions to fulfill, big ask!

I calculated £71, It might have been £90 or higher in 2016 or 2015, the yearly cost to purchase the PUs have gone down by 300%. That's just my opinion, it could be that you're right.

Really the big deal is the £60m....I think if they finish 4th next year, their FOM payment will increase by £40

[diffuser]

But as you said "If", also there are two sponsors leaving. 2018 has to go too perfect for them to recover all that money, specially on a market where the interest for F1 is in decline. As I said it is a big risk to swap to just be a 3rd or 4th team on the grid and become a costumer team not a partnership. I hope 2018 goes great for Mclaren as for Honda but I like to be realistic and for now their future economically doesn't look too good from a business point of view. The question is could they they get the hit if 2018 doesn't go as great as they think?

If you were so worried about McLaren losing money then you would support this move away from Honda. When McLaren lap Torro Rosso next year what will you say then? Because according to you Honda isn’t that bad and Torro Rosso will have 60 million so how can they get lapped by a “bankrupt” team?

I answer your post when you bother to read properly my post

WOW, really??? is that what's it coming to.... take the high road and answer .....LEAD by example, people will follow. Or atleast people like me will notice and respect you for it.

[diffuser]

I know for a fact that Honda was trying to get out of the sponsorship to STR. I looked, I can't find anywhere that they did or did NOT agree to it.


I did find that McLaren are NOT supplying the transmissions. Also found that STR was planning to use the WHOLE RBR rear for 2018...which they can't do now.

[Redragon]

If you were so worried about McLaren losing money then you would support this move away from Honda. When McLaren lap Torro Rosso next year what will you say then? Because according to you Honda isn’t that bad and Torro Rosso will have 60 million so how can they get lapped by a “bankrupt” team?

I answer your post when you bother to read properly my post

WOW, really??? is that what's it coming to.... take the high road and answer .....LEAD by example, people will follow. Or atleast people like me will notice and respect you for it.

I know but of answer nonesense specially from him. I am posting about ifs and outcomes that might happen and he is just answering in a no good manner with things that he believe are facts, when still to see if they are become true or not, so I rather not feed the none sense. But if he wants to debate the possible outputs with data, etc... I am happy to do it.

[diffuser]

I answer your post when you bother to read properly my post

WOW, really??? is that what's it coming to.... take the high road and answer .....LEAD by example, people will follow. Or atleast people like me will notice and respect you for it.

I know but of answer nonesense specially from him. I am posting about ifs and outcomes that might happen and he is just answering in a no good manner with things that he believe are facts, when still to see if they are become true or not, so I rather not feed the none sense. But if he wants to debate the possible outputs with data, etc... I am happy to do it.

I hear you...

[REN]

Techman,

you have made your point ad nauseum. Some may accept it, some may not. Repeating your opinion will not convince anyone else to believe it.

So, Jog on and stop wasting bytes with it.

He's just arguing with the Mclaren team themselves. They ARE saying THEY HAVE THE BEST CHASSIS on the grid. If thats the case they will beat Red Bull next season. If you beat Red Bull next season you have a great chance of winning races and a title. Now i would have thought most us could agree Mclaren won't be winning much at all next season. Which makes Techmans predictions correct. And when he says Mclaren are hiding behind Honda, its exactly what they are doing.

The 1 thing Techman needs to do is drop it, like you said, but that's only because no one is listening to him now. But be warned, everything he is saying is going to come true next season, Mclaren won't win a thing. And when they dont, how many of you will be big enough to apologise to him?

As many have said, McLaren may well have the best chassis in 2017 or they may not. But that counts for nothing in 2018. There will be new chassis for all teams and relative performance comparison will be reset.

Techman, and yourself by the look of it, so want to be right and have constructed and argument is such a way that you can't be wrong. MCL33 get beat by RB14 (which they will likely be due to better integration and more mature relationship with PU partner)=I told you so, I was right about the the RB13 being better than the MCL32.

Likewise, if the MCL33 beats the RB14, the argument will be made that the RB13 was better than the MCL32, and I (we) were right all along. Followed by some crap about McLaren copying the install off RBR and RBR being hamstrung by Renault because they are out of contract at the end 2018 and will be with Honda for 2019.

Either way take pleasure in you forthcoming victory of opinion.

Count me in with those two guys.... The Proof will be in the pudding.. IF mclaren beats redbull in 2018, you will have the facts on your side. but untill then; techman and nathanolder's opinion is AT LEAST as valid as you lot's. so climb of the horse already....

[aral]

Yet again the thread goes waaaayy off topic ! Look at the title of the thread. It is about the team in 2017. Discussing what Alonso , Lando, VanDoorne will score in 2018 has no relevance.

[Manoah2u]

perhaps time to close the 2017 threads.