Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

[Jolle]

Anyway everyone else is too small time to make a power unit as complex as these, let alone be competitive.

That's what part of the 2021-engine debate is all about of course.

even when engines were the least complex (2.4 V8, frozen rules, rev limit), Cosworth didn't had a chance.

[godlameroso]

Anyway everyone else is too small time to make a power unit as complex as these, let alone be competitive.

That's what part of the 2021-engine debate is all about of course.

This is getting off topic but politically there's no reason for the current teams to want to ditch the current power units, after all the money and effort they've put in, they're still just scratching the surface, and big gains are still being made year on year. Not to mention, no matter what they come up with, the current teams are always going to have a big leg up on the competition.

[ME4ME]

Absolutely. I agree with you both. Im not that conviced about small manufacturers joining either, but I thought it was worth pointing out that that's exactly what Liberty is trying to achieve.

(Steering this somewhat back on-topic) The single best thing about the introduction of the V6 hybrids has been Honda's comeback to F1. OK, they failed miserably so far, but at least now there is a PU manufacturer without its own team and is thus fully independent. This is exactly what F1 needs: a go to solution for top teams who cannot accept 2nd grade service from a manufacturer who also has it's own team, and for teams who cannot develop their own unit for whatever reason.

Red Bull is such a team who needs independent firms like Honda. So it will be interesting to see how the RB14 performs and if there still is a lack of power from the Renault unit. If Honda can catch up, then the 2021 plan might become obsolete: teams like Red Bull, Mclaren and even Williams might all want to partner with Honda if it brings them equal playing ground. No need for other PU regulations. No need for further independent manufacturers.

[lio007]

Absolutely. I agree with you both. Im not that conviced about small manufacturers joining either, but I thought it was worth pointing out that that's exactly what Liberty is trying to achieve.

(Steering this somewhat back on-topic) The single best thing about the introduction of the V6 hybrids has been Honda's comeback to F1. OK, they failed miserably so far, but at least now there is a PU manufacturer without its own team and is thus fully independent. This is exactly what F1 needs: a go to solution for top teams who cannot accept 2nd grade service from a manufacturer who also has it's own team, and for teams who cannot develop their own unit for whatever reason.

Red Bull is such a team who needs independent firms like Honda. So it will be interesting to see how the RB14 performs and if there still is a lack of power from the Renault unit. If Honda can catch up, then the 2021 plan might become obsolete: teams like Red Bull, Mclaren and even Williams might all want to partner with Honda if it brings them equal playing ground. No need for other PU regulations. No need for further independent manufacturers.

But isn't that a little bit risky... just to build everything on Honda?
What happens, for whatever reason, if Hondas PU doesn't come good and they pull the plug and leave F1...
Competitive teams like RedBull Racing or McLaren have again no chance to be WC. By then even Renault will favour it's own team. It's too much of an advantage to have control over the whole package (chassis + PU). As Newey recently stated, they already have to use everything (PU-related) in the same way as the factory team. And we know Bob Bell came from Mercedes, so I think Renault will be doing the same as Mercedes sooner or later.

Independend teams like Red Bull don't have an easy life these days in F1.
It's crazy / rediciulous to have no chance being WC without factory support even if you have a very good chassis, which I believe the RB14 will be.

[dren]

Any thoughts on what the new car will look like? I'm expecting an evolution, an almost mirror image of what they had this past season, with minor optimizations around the car.

[Nonserviam85]

Anyway everyone else is too small time to make a power unit as complex as these, let alone be competitive.

That's what part of the 2021-engine debate is all about of course.

even when engines were the least complex (2.4 V8, frozen rules, rev limit), Cosworth didn't had a chance.

Actually CA2006 was a very good engine. Cosworth lost the train with the blown diffuser mapping (limited funding and experience) after their return in 2010 (off topic I know )

[digitalrurouni]

Any thoughts on what the new car will look like? I'm expecting an evolution, an almost mirror image of what they had this past season, with minor optimizations around the car.

Having read Newey's book I believe you are on to something. However I also believe that Red Bull were a bit complacent last year believing the new aero regulations would be something they would totally dominate. It was very easy to see that in hindsight especially when the cars were first introduced. The Ferrari and the Mercedes were incredibly complex and had intricate designs on them whereas the Red Bull looked very clean and a lot of folks in this forum were convinced that the Red Bull would be lethal from the start. I think they won't repeat that mistake this year though.

[FPV GTHO]

Im curious whether the Ferraris treatment of the side impact structure will be the next "must have", and thus be copied amongst the grid. Some of the simple and elegant solutions Red Bull come up with are alot nicer to look at, but im nowhere convinced its whats best with how much more freedom was given back in the bodywork regulations. We also saw a new wing tested in Abu Dhabi that looked to work the Y250 vortex differently, so if they go ahead with that it could indicate more revolution downstream

[f1316]

Absolutely. I agree with you both. Im not that conviced about small manufacturers joining either, but I thought it was worth pointing out that that's exactly what Liberty is trying to achieve.

(Steering this somewhat back on-topic) The single best thing about the introduction of the V6 hybrids has been Honda's comeback to F1. OK, they failed miserably so far, but at least now there is a PU manufacturer without its own team and is thus fully independent. This is exactly what F1 needs: a go to solution for top teams who cannot accept 2nd grade service from a manufacturer who also has it's own team, and for teams who cannot develop their own unit for whatever reason.

Red Bull is such a team who needs independent firms like Honda. So it will be interesting to see how the RB14 performs and if there still is a lack of power from the Renault unit. If Honda can catch up, then the 2021 plan might become obsolete: teams like Red Bull, Mclaren and even Williams might all want to partner with Honda if it brings them equal playing ground. No need for other PU regulations. No need for further independent manufacturers.

But isn't that a little bit risky... just to build everything on Honda?
What happens, for whatever reason, if Hondas PU doesn't come good and they pull the plug and leave F1...
Competitive teams like RedBull Racing or McLaren have again no chance to be WC. By then even Renault will favour it's own team. It's too much of an advantage to have control over the whole package (chassis + PU). As Newey recently stated, they already have to use everything (PU-related) in the same way as the factory team. And we know Bob Bell came from Mercedes, so I think Renault will be doing the same as Mercedes sooner or later.

Independend teams like Red Bull don't have an easy life these days in F1.
It's crazy / rediciulous to have no chance being WC without factory support even if you have a very good chassis, which I believe the RB14 will be.

Someone - I think it was Brawn - mentioned how Porsche’s feedback re LMP had been useful in the future engine discussions too; this process is therefore also about finding more “Hondas” - I.e. more viable companies to come in and make an F1 engine.

I agree with you that it’s likely to be positive for the grid if these companies come in to build a powertrain only, rather than a complete car of their own, but I’m also convinced that Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault will not want to throw the baby out with the bath water - they won’t want to have to build a brand new engine - and it would be massively counter productive to lose them but gain an Aston and/or Porsche.

So I think and hope we will get a couple new engine manufacturers out of the regulation change, but suggest that the existing ones will have an advantage of experience with the existing V6s; hopefully that is lessened by decomplicating the H aspect and allowing a higher fuel flow.

[Godius]

Dr. Marko stated in a AMuS article that the wheelbase of the car will stay the same as on the RB13. He also stated that Newey is more involved with the development of the new car during the winter compared to last year.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 11539.html

[lio007]

Dr. Marko stated in a AMuS article that the wheelbase of the car will stay the same as on the RB13. He also stated that Newey is more involved with the development of the new car during the winter compared to last year.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 11539.html

# Engineers have got a deadline to ensure to be not on the backfoot
# critical crash tests have been passed (but there are still some to do)
# PU-reliability should be no concern, but pure power or improvement compared to the others is still unknown

[Wouter]

Dr. Marko stated in a AMuS article that the wheelbase of the car will stay the same as on the RB13. He also stated that Newey is more involved with the development of the new car during the winter compared to last year.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 11539.html

Michael Schmidt, journalist of AMuS says that there are no problems anymore with the reliability of the PU. Helmut Marko and RBR say they do not know this, because Renault has not told them. I can not imagine Renault giving this information to AMuS, but not to RBR and Marko. Would this be true, that the reliability is good now, then Marko should also know that?

[lio007]

Dr. Marko stated in a AMuS article that the wheelbase of the car will stay the same as on the RB13. He also stated that Newey is more involved with the development of the new car during the winter compared to last year.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 11539.html

Michael Schmidt, journalist of AMuS says that there are no problems anymore with the reliability of the PU. Helmut Marko and RBR say they do not know this, because Renault has not told them. I can not imagine Renault giving this information to AMuS, but not to RBR and Marko. Would this be true, that the reliability is good now, then Marko should also know that?

No, that's a bit mistranslated!!

That's the relevant part of the article:

Aus Paris kommt das Signal, dass die Zuverlässigkeit im Griff ist. Verbunden mit der Hoffnung, dass Renault jetzt ordentlich an Leistung zulegen kann, um die Lücke zu Marktführer Mercedes zu schließen. Im Gegensatz zum Vorjahr macht Renault aber auch gegenüber Motorenpartner Red Bull keine konkreten Aussagen. Marko ist das lieber als zu großer Optimismus, der sich dann als heiße Luft erweist. „Lassen wir uns überraschen.“

# There are signals / indications from Paris (Viry) that reliability is under control
# There is hope from Red Bull that Renault can close the gap to the best PU (Mercedes)
# In contrast to last year, Renault doesn't make promises or clear statements (that they will gain this or that amount of horesepower) => Marko is in favour of that attitude (he doesn't want to get overpromised and underdelivered)
# Marko says "Let us surprise"

[lio007]

Hm...only 2 weeks to go until preseason testing starts.
But Red Bull is pretty quiet about about the new car, no launch date,...

I mean, if their plan was to finish the car 2 weeks earlier, then it must have passed all crash tests, must have already had a fire up and should be ready for the shakedown.

[carisi2k]

chassis might be ready but they still don't have a power unit to start it up with. The only info I have been hearing from red bull has been about how good the STR13 has been progressing. I continue to think that they have told Renault to piss off and will progress with the new massively improved Honda engine.