F1 ICE more oxygen

[johnny comelately]

Would it be possible to use something like a molecular sieve to give extra oxygen to the air side of the ICE thus improving efficiency?
Powered or passive?
Even a fraction (numeric) of a percent would be significant.

[roon]

If dioxygen is smaller than dinitrogen, argon and/or CO2.

[Rodak]

Since the engines are fuel flow not air flow restricted how would that help? And where are you going to get the energy for some sort of oxygen separator, from the battery? And if you use the battery wouldn't that mean..... You get the picture.

[Big Tea]

Is water injection specifically banned? What would be the pro and con if it was allowed? Especially if it was allowed at any temperature and at any point on the cycle, before during or after the cylinder?

[wuzak]

Is water injection specifically banned? What would be the pro and con if it was allowed? Especially if it was allowed at any temperature and at any point on the cycle, before during or after the cylinder?

Yes.

5.14.2 Other than engine sump breather gases, exhaust gas recirculation, and fuel for the normal purpose of combustion in the engine, the spraying of any substance into the engine intake air is forbidden.

[Xwang]

".. the spraying of any substance into the engine intake air is forbidden. ..."
So injecting directly into the cylinder is possible?

[Rodak]

5.10.2 There may only be one fuel injector per cylinder and no fuel injectors are permitted upstream of the intake valves or downstream of the exhaust valves. Only approved parts may be used and the list of parts approved by the FIA, and the approval procedure, may be found in the Appendix to the Technical Regulations.

[Zynerji]

Water isn't fuel, so it's direct injector is immune to that rule..

[Pieoter]

5.14.2 The addition of any substance other than fuel, as described in Article 5.10.3, into the air destined for combustion is forbidden. Exhaust gas recirculation is forbidden.

https://www.fia.com/file/64927/download ... n=XN2hTEj2

[Tommy Cookers]

1 the' 'air' intended for combustion' ' contains about 9% water vapour eg at Singapore and about 0% eg at Abu Dhabi

2 an emulsification of fuel and water was said to improve combustion

3 is occasional water injection ahead of the turbine allowed ?
H recovery rate would greatly increase ? but crankshaft power would fall at that time
heat engines have been made eg combining CI and steam cycles

[Big Tea]

1 the' 'air' intended for combustion' ' contains about 9% water vapour eg at Singapore and about 0% eg at Abu Dhabi

2 an emulsification of fuel and water was said to improve combustion

3 is occasional water injection ahead of the turbine allowed ?
H recovery rate would greatly increase ? but crankshaft power would fall at that time
heat engines have been made eg combining CI and steam cycles

So does that exclude its use if added to the fuel before injection and injected at the normal btdc?
Would this not aid expansion, also provide more volume to driver the turbo?

So how would crankshaft power fall please? ( in words as simple as possible )

[Tommy Cookers]

taking the idea of injecting water into the exhaust ahead of the turbine ...... I think .....

the exhaust pressure will increase if the generator load is increased so that the rpm is unchanged
the crankshaft will do more work scavenging on the exhaust stroke against the increased exhaust pressure
work done by the fresh charge on the crankshaft during induction will be unchanged
so the power delivered by the crankshaft will decrease

energy quality is degraded by supersonic/sonic blowdown ie the energy state can be seen as part reversible part irreversible
this water injection scheme recovers from both the reversible and the irreversible parts of exhaust energy


direct water injection into the cylinder with the fuel needs thinking about - but my guess is that the rules don't allow it
the turbine can only access the reversible part of the exhaust energy ?
there may be other undesirable effects

[Big Tea]

taking the idea of injecting water into the exhaust ahead of the turbine ...... I think .....

the exhaust pressure will increase if the generator load is increased so that the rpm is unchanged
the crankshaft will do more work scavenging on the exhaust stroke against the increased exhaust pressure
work done by the fresh charge on the crankshaft during induction will be unchanged
so the power delivered by the crankshaft will decrease

direct water injection into the cylinder with the fuel needs thinking about - but my guess is that the rules don't allow it

I did not consider the charge still being expanding when pumped out or the extra density of the charge. More weight to move then?
Thanks

[johnny comelately]

5.14.2 The addition of any substance other than fuel, as described in Article 5.10.3, into the air destined for combustion is forbidden. Exhaust gas recirculation is forbidden.

https://www.fia.com/file/64927/download ... n=XN2hTEj2

commenting only on the regs side of things:
It could be argued that a separate oxygen is a fuel that should go through the fuel flow sensor, which the sensor should be able to handle which they cant.
But the regs re air just say air, nothing precluding a better air .
is it possible to incorporate a molecular sieve in the air filter system?

[johnny comelately]

Since the engines are fuel flow not air flow restricted how would that help? And where are you going to get the energy for some sort of oxygen separator, from the battery? And if you use the battery wouldn't that mean..... You get the picture.

The combustion process would benefit from extra oxygen in my opinion as not every molecule of fuel is combusted.