Mercedes W09 Speculation Thread

[gibells]

Looks like they're teasing us with the car in the background. The roll hoop and intakes look low and very wide. From my armchair I was expecting them to be much higher this year to clear the wake.

[f1316]

The principal problem with Halo in my view is similar to a lot of concepts (e.g. concept cars that get productionised) - the realisation doesn’t fulfill the original design concept:




Let’s hope over time, once it’s proven to work, the aesthetics are worked on, because I don’t think the original design is that bad at all.

[FrukostScones]

Wild speculation time! I say the W09 sports a pushrod rear suspension. The raised exhaust pipe is to clear suspension components. Pullrod rear suspensions may be a vestige of the '09-'12 formula, wherein pullrods benefitted the beam wing and high radiator exits. With beam wings and high radiator exits no longer presents, perhaps the pullrod is no longer the optimal solution. Relocating the suspension components higher may allow for more space below the gearbox and behind the engine i.e. more free space above and before the diffuser. Pardon the quality of the sketch, I didn't have a table for this one!

https://i.imgur.com/956UcGi.jpg

https://twitter.com/ideaeon/status/960963926849548289

Great Sketch and the exhaust will be probably roted soething like that. but push-rod rear suspension? No way.

[Jolle]

Wild speculation time! I say the W09 sports a pushrod rear suspension. The raised exhaust pipe is to clear suspension components. Pullrod rear suspensions may be a vestige of the '09-'12 formula, wherein pullrods benefitted the beam wing and high radiator exits. With beam wings and high radiator exits no longer presents, perhaps the pullrod is no longer the optimal solution. Relocating the suspension components higher may allow for more space below the gearbox and behind the engine i.e. more free space above and before the diffuser. Pardon the quality of the sketch, I didn't have a table for this one!

https://i.imgur.com/956UcGi.jpg

https://twitter.com/ideaeon/status/960963926849548289

Great Sketch and the exhaust will be probably roted soething like that. but push-rod rear suspension? No way.

Maybe just the complete opposite. By having the wishbones raised as high as possible, there could be some beam wing effect or positive effect on the rear of the car. Combined with this extra height, a pull-rod will work more effective due to the better angle. The reason pull-rod suspensions don't work at the front anymore, is the small difference in top of the upright and the bottom of the chassis.

[F1NAC]

Maybe is new gearbox. Shorter and bulkier

[Holm86]

Maybe is new gearbox. Shorter and bulkier

Toto Wolff has admitted Mercedes is pushing the development of its 2018 car to the limit.Italy's Corriere dello Sport claims that with Ferrari and Red Bull closing in, Mercedes has pushed the limits with the performance parameters of the new car.

The report says several exhausts have broken on the test rigs at Brixworth during race simulations, apparently due to vibrations emitted by a shorter and smaller gearbox.

Team boss Wolff said: "Nothing ever goes completely to plan, because you're always trying to explore the limits and make the car as light as possible. But I would say that we had a good winter. There were no big dramas even if the stress is always there," he added. (GMM)

https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/2357 ... t-mercedes

[wesley123]

I still find it impressive how journalists can say nothing in so many words.

"news source x reported that team y has issues with part z", followed by a quote from someone within the team that doesn't confirm, let alone imply, anything in the article.

[Holm86]

Im just quoting something I saw, which I think had relevance to the discussion.
To me it makes sense that the vibrations could stress the exhaust pipe, and why their rear wing center pillar doesnt go through the exhaust any more, so there is not the same amount of vibrations transfered from the gearbox to the exhaust.

[roon]

Wild speculation time! I say the W09 sports a pushrod rear suspension. The raised exhaust pipe is to clear suspension components. Pullrod rear suspensions may be a vestige of the '09-'12 formula, wherein pullrods benefitted the beam wing and high radiator exits. With beam wings and high radiator exits no longer presents, perhaps the pullrod is no longer the optimal solution. Relocating the suspension components higher may allow for more space below the gearbox and behind the engine i.e. more free space above and before the diffuser. Pardon the quality of the sketch, I didn't have a table for this one!

https://i.imgur.com/956UcGi.jpg

https://twitter.com/ideaeon/status/960963926849548289

Great Sketch and the exhaust will be probably roted soething like that. but push-rod rear suspension? No way.

Maybe just the complete opposite. By having the wishbones raised as high as possible, there could be some beam wing effect or positive effect on the rear of the car. Combined with this extra height, a pull-rod will work more effective due to the better angle. The reason pull-rod suspensions don't work at the front anymore, is the small difference in top of the upright and the bottom of the chassis.

I agree, the pullrod arrangement at the rear may have better kinematics. For a pushrod to have similar motion they may need to maximize the distance between the upper and lower mounting points of the pushrod: the lower extremity of the upright, and a bellcrank pivot located as high as possible. Such a taller stack of components may explain the kink in the exhaust pipe, which led to my drawing.

If it is simply a raised suspension arm pick-up causing the kink, then the upper suspension arms have been moved not only higher but also further forward. Typically they attach inline with rear axle, where the crash structure attaches to the gearbox. The pipe bend shown in the engine start-up vid is located forward of this area.

By having the wishbones raised as high as possible, there could be some beam wing effect or positive effect on the rear of the car.

Merc did pioneer the conjoined front-lower wishbone, maybe they've done the same to the rear-upper wishbone. This could also explain a raised-and-forward pickup point. A coinjoined arm located in the middle of where a triangular arm normally would be. Combined with the +/-10* AoA allowance, perhaps you are on to something. A single large arm protruding through the bodywork, able to sweep through 20* total degrees of AoA. Only downside is it must have a vertically-symmetrical cross-section.



If it isn't just some testing-spec exhaust fabrication, nor related to suspension design, maybe there is something new to the exhaust and turbine set-up.

[Blackout]

Merc did pioneer the conjoined front-lower wishbone, maybe they've done the same to the rear-upper wishbone. This could also explain a raised-and-forward pickup point. A coinjoined arm located in the middle of where a triangular arm normally would be. Combined with the +/-10* AoA allowance, perhaps you are on to something. A single large arm protruding through the bodywork, able to sweep through 20* total degrees of AoA. Only downside is it must have a vertically-symmetrical cross-section.

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... detail.jpg

If it isn't just some testing-spec exhaust fabrication, nor related to suspension design, maybe there is something new to the exhaust and turbine set-up.

I had a similar thought in 2014/2015 Remember the Williams FW-16...

http://www.gurneyflap.com/Resources/FW16-1413.jpg
http://www.marcosaupe.de/images/mod_FW16_07.JPG

[roon]

Another take on what might be under that raised exhaust pipe, inspired by Scarbs' and Jolle's comments: A raised and conjoined rear upper control arm.



https://twitter.com/ideaeon/status/962087833660895232

Uncanny resemblance, Blackout!

[mmred]

Another take on what might be under that raised exhaust pipe, inspired by Scarbs' and Jolle's comments: A raised and conjoined rear upper control arm.

https://i.imgur.com/rT7qK7w.jpg

https://twitter.com/ideaeon/status/962087833660895232

Uncanny resemblance, Blackout!

i suspect that geometry litteraly would make the car destroy the tyres ( and not only ) for the lateral friction present even on the straight caused by the movement of the wheels that tend to go closer to the gearbox with accelleration

in the case you try to prevent the movement and keep it static with just the central arm you ll get a so direct sollecitation of the gearbox and the differential disk would probably go berserk after 100 metres

but apart from that
you draw nice, keep making efforts, just dont draw innovative solutions ( i know they are more fun, but u need a lot of experience there that you cant possibly have ) maybe you ll become a Piola some day

[PlatinumZealot]

The geometry won't destry the tyres if the kinematics are good. It's not hard to relocate the pick up points and retain good kinematics.

[mmred]

The geometry won't destry the tyres if the kinematics are good. It's not hard to relocate the pick up points and retain good kinematics.

current (2015) mclaren solution on the right
compared with the proposed solution on the left
i am not saying it isnt fun, it is, it is just not feasible too much stress on the other elements of the rear suspensions



any structural or mechanic eng can say you the same

[Vanja #66]

Everything is feasible, the only question is it worth it. For that design, you'd need to buff those arms up quite a bit. That adds weight. To the rear. A long way from the CoG. But, if aero is a lot better (just an example) then it could be useful and worth the trouble.