2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

[RonDennis]

I think you need to take a closer look at the business side of McLaren’s operations rather that their PR.

If you don’t understand or don’t want to acknowledge that McLaren increased its staff massively during 2014 thanks to a leap in budget then I can’t help you I’m afraid. F1 isn’t a fairy tale, it’s a business with a car as the end product.

Re Alonso’s salary it has been well reported as being around 40 million per year in 2017 and on his new contract for 2018.

Well I guess if Alonso is still earning 40 million per year, budget isn't really a problem. As far as I know, nothing has been published about Alonso's salary. You're talking about fairy tales, but you haven't shared a single piece of evidence for any of your claims. It's also funny that you don't respond on my comment about the 2013 season, guess it didn't really fit in your story that well.

[McHonda]

McLaren's "poor" cars in 2013/14 had very little to do with money.

Perhaps.

It is then therefore a complete coincidence that McLaren's 'poor' cars happened to be built with the lowest budgets in Woking's recent history.

Yes,coincidences happen all the time. It was a similar budget which produced the quickest car in 2012 and a team struggling for money doesn't throw away a winning design for a whole new concept a year before a major rule change.

It was literally a colossal waste of money to have effectively a 1yr only new concept car and they did it because they could.

[Talisman]

So according to you two McLaren has been operating on a stable constant budget and staffing for the past decade. Losing and failing to replace vodaphone title sponsorship, losing works Mercedes status with the accompanying drop in funding and increase in costs followed by the increase in funding from the works Honda deal is totally irrelevant despite the falls and rises in budget correlating with the quality of the chassis.

Ok

[godlameroso]

McLaren already started reorganizing with new staff before Honda came in, because it was already clear that things needed to change. Honda also paid half of Alonso's salary, which had no effect on McLaren and look at all the sponsors that have left and the drop in prize money. Will McLaren win championships with this budget? Probably not. It simply has to rebuild, like it has done in the past.

Honda's money started arriving in 2014. This was accompanied by a large increase in the number of staff at Woking as demonstrated by the number of adverts in Autosport over that year, by formal staff count and by informal reports of staff being poached from other teams.

McLaren is based in the UK so some of their financial details are open to public scrutiny, you can plot their income over the years through records at Company House.

Likewise using similar methods one can see that Honda is NOT putting in significant amounts of money into STR (nor BTW is Red Bull) because we do not see a similar recruitment drive in their British operations.

Alonso is interesting. I'm sure you're right that some of his salary was paid for by Honda. He refused to agree a paycut for 2018 despite McLaren's lower income and his salary now makes up roughly a third of McLaren's income ($40 million out of $120 million although I have excluded the money put in by the owners to compensate for Honda's departure). Whether that is money well spent or not is debatable especially since he is now effectively racing for two teams (Toyota) and that money could be spent making the car more competitive which will in turn attract top drivers if it is good enough for less money.

Why would they need to attract good drivers when they have Norris and Vandoorne?

[McHonda]

So according to you two McLaren has been operating on a stable constant budget and staffing for the past decade. Losing and failing to replace vodaphone title sponsorship, losing works Mercedes status with the accompanying drop in funding and increase in costs followed by the increase in funding from the works Honda deal is totally irrelevant despite the falls and rises in budget correlating with the quality of the chassis.

Ok

Well they have. Just because it doesn't rival some others doesn't mean it fell at any point. Even for 2014 with no title sponsor the operational budget increased. It of course increased again for 2015 with Honda. https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/01/ ... us-season/

Although the team’s long term financial health looks positive, with Honda due to arrive in 2015 with free engines and significant subsidy, many in F1 circles are questioning what sort of budget the team will have in this transitional year and whether it will leave them lagging behind the powerhouse teams Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari.

Speaking today McLaren MD Jonathan Neale said that, despite the loss of Vodafone, “McLaren Racing will have a larger operational budget available to it in 2014 than it’s had in any previous season in McLaren’s history.”

BIB-When do you imagine this decrease in funding followed by increase by Honda happened? With the shareholders picking up the Vodafone slack in 2014 and in 2015 Honda came in. You make it sound like there was some wilderness years in between when they were broke but this simply didn't happen.

EDIT: Mercedes didn't contribute in 2014, that ended in 2013 sorry, edited it.

[RonDennis]

"I'd be surprised if we were world champions this year," says Brown. "Then again, no one thought Brawn was going to be world champion, so, you know, the sport can throw out. But that was a big rule change and they found something. With the rules stability now it's harder to find something.

"I wouldn't want to say we're not gonna try and win world championships before 2021, but certainly it's an un-level playing field right now, which makes it a tall task. The budget deficit is quite huge between us and the top three teams. You can spend more efficiently, as Force India does. Force India is beating teams that spend more, so it's not purely money, but the discrepancy is too big.

"Given the amount of change that is going to come in 2021, I think right now all we can do is focus on the next three years and stay very in-tune with what's going to happen. We used to have one of the biggest budgets in the sport, now we don't, so we need to find more budget and at the same time work real hard to get ready for the cost cap, which I think is gonna be a positive thing.

"When we get on equal footing [financially] with the other teams, I like our chances of winning world championships as much as anyone else."

Incidentally, cost capping is exactly the sort of thing Williams technical chief Paddy Lowe feels his team needs before it stands any real chance of making proper progress back towards the front of the grid. In the meantime, McLaren must also tread water to a certain extent, hoping that Renault can find a consistent level of performance that has proved largely beyond its reach since the current V6 engines were introduced.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/79 ... g-timebomb

[Talisman]

So according to you two McLaren has been operating on a stable constant budget and staffing for the past decade. Losing and failing to replace vodaphone title sponsorship, losing works Mercedes status with the accompanying drop in funding and increase in costs followed by the increase in funding from the works Honda deal is totally irrelevant despite the falls and rises in budget correlating with the quality of the chassis.

Ok

Well they have. Just because it doesn't rival some others doesn't mean it fell at any point. Even for 2014 with no title sponsor the operational budget increased. It of course increased again for 2015 with Honda. https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/01/ ... us-season/

Although the team’s long term financial health looks positive, with Honda due to arrive in 2015 with free engines and significant subsidy, many in F1 circles are questioning what sort of budget the team will have in this transitional year and whether it will leave them lagging behind the powerhouse teams Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari.

Speaking today McLaren MD Jonathan Neale said that, despite the loss of Vodafone, “McLaren Racing will have a larger operational budget available to it in 2014 than it’s had in any previous season in McLaren’s history.”[/quote

Finally, thank you.

[Talisman]

"I'd be surprised if we were world champions this year," says Brown. "Then again, no one thought Brawn was going to be world champion, so, you know, the sport can throw out. But that was a big rule change and they found something. With the rules stability now it's harder to find something.

"I wouldn't want to say we're not gonna try and win world championships before 2021, but certainly it's an un-level playing field right now, which makes it a tall task. The budget deficit is quite huge between us and the top three teams. You can spend more efficiently, as Force India does. Force India is beating teams that spend more, so it's not purely money, but the discrepancy is too big.

"Given the amount of change that is going to come in 2021, I think right now all we can do is focus on the next three years and stay very in-tune with what's going to happen. We used to have one of the biggest budgets in the sport, now we don't, so we need to find more budget and at the same time work real hard to get ready for the cost cap, which I think is gonna be a positive thing.

"When we get on equal footing [financially] with the other teams, I like our chances of winning world championships as much as anyone else."

Incidentally, cost capping is exactly the sort of thing Williams technical chief Paddy Lowe feels his team needs before it stands any real chance of making proper progress back towards the front of the grid. In the meantime, McLaren must also tread water to a certain extent, hoping that Renault can find a consistent level of performance that has proved largely beyond its reach since the current V6 engines were introduced.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/79 ... g-timebomb

Exactly. When McLaren has to wait for a costcap to become competitive for champions you know they’re in trouble.

[RonDennis]

"I'd be surprised if we were world champions this year," says Brown. "Then again, no one thought Brawn was going to be world champion, so, you know, the sport can throw out. But that was a big rule change and they found something. With the rules stability now it's harder to find something.

"I wouldn't want to say we're not gonna try and win world championships before 2021, but certainly it's an un-level playing field right now, which makes it a tall task. The budget deficit is quite huge between us and the top three teams. You can spend more efficiently, as Force India does. Force India is beating teams that spend more, so it's not purely money, but the discrepancy is too big.

"Given the amount of change that is going to come in 2021, I think right now all we can do is focus on the next three years and stay very in-tune with what's going to happen. We used to have one of the biggest budgets in the sport, now we don't, so we need to find more budget and at the same time work real hard to get ready for the cost cap, which I think is gonna be a positive thing.

"When we get on equal footing [financially] with the other teams, I like our chances of winning world championships as much as anyone else."

Incidentally, cost capping is exactly the sort of thing Williams technical chief Paddy Lowe feels his team needs before it stands any real chance of making proper progress back towards the front of the grid. In the meantime, McLaren must also tread water to a certain extent, hoping that Renault can find a consistent level of performance that has proved largely beyond its reach since the current V6 engines were introduced.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/79 ... g-timebomb

Exactly. When McLaren has to wait for a costcap to become competitive for champions you know they’re in trouble.

I would call it realistic, even with the same budget it will be nearly impossible to beat Mercedes. The same goes for Red Bull, everyone is hyping their chassis, but let's wait and see what effect those new suspension rules will have on them.

[NathanOlder]

Just read that the WEC Calendar has been changed to accommodate Fernando Alonso. The fuji round (the 1 that clashed with F1's US GP) has been moved by a week to allow Alonso to take part.

[Manoah2u]

Just read that the WEC Calendar has been changed to accommodate Fernando Alonso. The fuji round (the 1 that clashed with F1's US GP) has been moved by a week to allow Alonso to take part.

that's a big LOL.

first time i've ever heared that an event actually has been changed because of ONE driver that is not even participating in the series for a longer time above all.

[Redragon]

Just read that the WEC Calendar has been changed to accommodate Fernando Alonso. The fuji round (the 1 that clashed with F1's US GP) has been moved by a week to allow Alonso to take part.

that's a big LOL.

first time i've ever heared that an event actually has been changed because of ONE driver that is not even participating in the series for a longer time above all.

But that's the news http://www.marca.com/motor/24-horas-le- ... b45f2.html
I guess Japan still loves Alonso

[Joseki]

Toyota (Fuji's owners) asked for the change and FIA/ACO weren't really in the position to say "no" to their only P1-H manufacturer left.

[NathanOlder]

Well, He's driving a Toyota at a track owned by Toyota and he's the guy that publicly humiliated Honda. So i guess that makes him a Toyota legend already

[604gtir]

Well, He's driving a Toyota at a track owned by Toyota and he's the guy that publicly humiliated Honda. So i guess that makes him a Toyota legend already

honda humiliated honda... he was just pointing out the obvious