Lordy, lets not start all over again! When you start a post with "as an engineer", it looks like you're saying your opinion is more worthy - there are lots of engineers here.TwanV wrote: ↑27 Feb 2018, 12:51I've been scrolling through this thread and as an engineer I can't get my head around why people would think the halo is a good solution. In my mind the halo is a compromise brought about by FIA politics in the wake of the Bianchi tragedy when the only sensible thing to do really is to ban open wheel racing. In safety terms it really doesn't make any sense to not have a closed canopy as opposed to a halo. Aesthetically: the same. I even saw some comments/FIA research that appear to show that an F-16 canopy is inferior to the halo and that the halo is so fantastic because "it can tackle a london bus". Who is interested in london busses anyway, the only thing that matters is that a potential lethal impact is absorbed. Out with the halo, in with the canopy please; especially on cold days like today.
Nothing personal but aeronautical engineering and F1 are closely tied, where tinfoil comes in the picture I don't know.Jolle wrote: ↑27 Feb 2018, 13:15If cars were build like airplanes, they would weigh 200kg and made of tinfoil. One crash and you're dead.TwanV wrote: ↑27 Feb 2018, 13:00Well let's not have an argument about the power of wind-screens since every car apart from open-wheelers have one. How many cars/jets have a solid titanium bar instead? It's just bad spin Jolle, really.Jolle wrote: ↑27 Feb 2018, 12:57
I think you need to read/view the fia documents. they are very clear that Bianchi's accident wasn't part of it. They were already busy with head protection even before surtees his accident (on request by the teams and drivers).
As an engineer you must know that a plastic screen or canopy is no match for a solid titanium roll bar. There is a FIA presconference on here somewhere, just watch it.
A f16 canopy is build to withstand a 1kg bird at 600 km/h (give or take), not a F1 crash, where a car rides over you or you get wedged under boarding. Also, a canopy costs around ten times that of the halo plus it would need replacement with every small crash, next to all of the questions of rain, dirt, airconditioning and driver retraction.
Sorry mate, you're right. Just a bit frustrated with the current state of affairs.jjn9128 wrote: ↑27 Feb 2018, 14:05Lordy, lets not start all over again! When you start a post with "as an engineer", it looks like you're saying your opinion is more worthy - there are lots of engineers here.TwanV wrote: ↑27 Feb 2018, 12:51I've been scrolling through this thread and as an engineer I can't get my head around why people would think the halo is a good solution. In my mind the halo is a compromise brought about by FIA politics in the wake of the Bianchi tragedy when the only sensible thing to do really is to ban open wheel racing. In safety terms it really doesn't make any sense to not have a closed canopy as opposed to a halo. Aesthetically: the same. I even saw some comments/FIA research that appear to show that an F-16 canopy is inferior to the halo and that the halo is so fantastic because "it can tackle a london bus". Who is interested in london busses anyway, the only thing that matters is that a potential lethal impact is absorbed. Out with the halo, in with the canopy please; especially on cold days like today.
https://www.racefans.net/2018/02/27/sai ... y-concern/Sainz reveals Halo rain visibility concern
Carlos Sainz Jnr revealed he couldn’t see it had started to rain during yesterday’s test because the Halo prevented the drops from landing on his visor.
“Today when it was starting raining a bit, the rain, you couldn’t see it on the visor,” said Sainz at the end of yesterday’s test. “The Halo was not allowing the rain drops to go onto the visor.
“So you were not really seeing if it was raining or not. You were just feeling it in your hands, in your ass to see how the grip was.”
This is likely to be more of a problem in light rain conditions, as Sainz explained. “This kind of rain sometimes as drivers it really bothers us because you don’t know if you can actually push 100% or not.”
“You have to guess it with the pit wall and see how much rain there was because for us. Our visor was completely dry and outside it was raining. So a bit tricky there.”
However Sainz said visibility was “not an issue” on the whole with the Halo. “After two laps you don’t see it any more you just see through it.”
Sainz ended the day sixth-quickest overall while team mate Nico Hulkenberg set the fourth-fastest time.
https://www.racefans.net/2018/02/27/gas ... suit-halo/Gasly tore his race suit on Halo winglet
Pierre Gasly said he tore his racing suit on the winglet which had been fitted to his Halo when he got into his car during today’s test.
“I don’t like it, it’s just a big mess to get in the car and get out,” he told media including RaceFans after today’s test. “My suit is already broken.”
“It’s only the first day and I have many holes on the back,” he explained. “You have to be a lot backward to slide in the car, it’s quite weird. Now with all the winglets you have on the Halo you cannot really pull to get out, you can’t really touch it.”
“It’s quite weird conditions but nothing really important,” he added. “I just prefer the old cars, that’s it.”
The Toro Rosso driver admitted he isn’t a fan of the new development but said it didn’t cause him any problems once he was behind the wheel.
“To drive with it, it doesn’t make a big difference,” he said. “In terms of visibility it’s the same.”
“Of course you see something on top of you which is a bit weird. But when you start to drive you are so focussed, you just pay attention to your driving, you don’t really see it.”
Getting out of the car is also “quite a big challenge” and could slow drivers’ escape in an emergency, said Gasly.
“It could take longer, that’s for sure. [But] it doesn’t worry me because I don’t think about any bad things. For sure I think it will be longer to get out, that’s what we have for this year. I don’t know if we’ll have it for the next couple of years but we’ll have to get used to it.”
more of a thing toro rosso didn't think about.
Nope, this is 100% on the FiA for allowing teams to fit aero appendages to the halo, it was easily avoidable by mandating only fully enclosed aero sculpting allowed and no winglets. eg like RedBull have produced on the RB14.
1. The batwing is well outside the view of the driver (anything just above the horizon is blocked by the sun visor)Manoah2u wrote: ↑28 Feb 2018, 02:51more of a thing toro rosso didn't think about.
the moment i noticed the 'hanging' wing on the underside of the halo of the toro rosso, i thought of a couple of things, but all about safety;
1 - how does that 'batwing' does NOT severly hamper view
2 - how does that 'batwing' does NOT impose an immediate danger to head trauma in the case of a collision having the driver 'headbump' the object
3 - how does that 'batwing' does NOT impose an immediate danger to the driver when shearing off during accident
4 - how does that 'batwing' does NOT hamper entering and leaving the cockpit
and non-safety related
5 - how does that 'batwing' bring any aerodynamic benefit like that?
to all the above 1 to 4, i can only see that it is of substancial danger.
as for 5, i don't see that either, but im no engineer.
i see loads of danger with toro rosso's solution and from the get-go i am 100% sure that will be banned before melbourne. dare i even say it's meant to stretch boundaries and provoke to get it banned and clear up regulations? it might. and that's not tinfoil hat at all.
suits getting torn by a halo appendace? sounds really odd to me. offcourse the device must be thus so firmly attached that it doesn't shear off easily but also must have sharp edges that are so sharp it tears up a racing overall upon contact?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DW826B5WAAAqhwA.jpg
edit:
i now realise the damage is on the back? of the suit? HOW?????
Apart from how it looks, no, I think its a well thought system, in use since safety was introduced in racing (the roll cage).NathanOlder wrote: ↑28 Feb 2018, 09:23Some people just see NO bad in the Halo at all. Jolle, your surname isn't Halo by any chance is it ?
Each day there seems to be more and more negatives coming out about the Halo
It just seems if it were up to you, you wouldnt let a person on the planet get into an open cockpit car without a Halo on top of it. whether its F1 or Formula Ford. God knows how your kids will get anywhere near a junior series when they have to pass through Karting first!Jolle wrote: ↑28 Feb 2018, 09:28Apart from how it looks, no, I think its a well thought system, in use since safety was introduced in racing (the roll cage).NathanOlder wrote: ↑28 Feb 2018, 09:23Some people just see NO bad in the Halo at all. Jolle, your surname isn't Halo by any chance is it ?
Each day there seems to be more and more negatives coming out about the Halo
I want this on the car when my kids race in junior series.
Trying to make a small winglet into a serious health problem sounds a bit desperate.