Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[blueytoo]

This japanese article shows RA161H vs RA617H. (Chrome is good for autotranslate. Bad for memory/disc.)
https://motor-fan.jp/article/10002128

I thought Honda wanted the "log" exhaust manifold of the RA615H.

I thought most of the efficiency/power problem in the turbo hybrids is the ICE not the ERS. Brilliant obfuscation by Mercedes. We don't get to see any of the internals. Everybody else has been chasing ERS efficiency with limited tokens, whilst Mercedes was sitting on superior ICE combustion. (So do they use their daimler patent system and not Mahle's TJI??) Nobody can see what the ICE combustion concept is. And F1 should deregulate it more, since the regs stop further exploration.

I can't see why Honda can't leapfrog with a novel combustion concept. Would love to know what things they have tried in their single cylinder models on computer and in metal.

[blueytoo]

Certainly japanese organizational culture can be mired in face saving efforts.

But that just as easily can be bad because of following advice from outsiders.

I have seen no reporting on the impact (positive or negative) of Gilles Simon as consultant to McLaren Honda. But he did leave for some reason. curious to know more....

[jagunx51]

I'm quickly becoming a STR-Honda fanboi.

If they get on the podium this year, the press is going to turn itself inside-out.

No no nooo ....that perhaps would make Alonso committing suicide

[MrPotatoHead]

Many references to Japanese culture but I doubt many of the people commenting have worked with the Japanese or have been to Japan.
One of my favorite countries to visit and a fantastic culture. They do work very differently from western culture though.
I've been to Japan to work with Honda R&D before - they are no different from any other Japanese company.

Back on topic - It is very encouraging to see the improved reliability this year so far vs last.
Hopefully Honda does much better this year.

[Wazari]

Many references to Japanese culture but I doubt many of the people commenting have worked with the Japanese or have been to Japan.
One of my favorite countries to visit and a fantastic culture. They do work very differently from western culture though.
I've been to Japan to work with Honda R&D before - they are no different from any other Japanese company.

Back on topic - It is very encouraging to see the improved reliability this year so far vs last.
Hopefully Honda does much better this year.

Sorry but we're going to have to disagree. I was in the Japanese work force for over 40 years having worked for Toyo Kogyo (now Mazda), Honda and Toyota. HRD is nothing like the other two from philosophy, work culture and engineering and design methodology and approach.

[Blackout]

I'm still confused that Honda could be so far off the mark when there is corporate knowledge of F1 and the full track simulation dynos shown on videos on the Honda F1 site.

Where?

[blueytoo]

[...]full track simulation dynos shown on videos on the Honda F1 site.[/b]

Where?

Saw them when they first started the current F1 foray. I think they were via http://en.hondaracingf1.com/ but that site is out fora rebuild. Can't find videos on the other site yet http://world.honda.com/Formula-1/powerunit/

[blueytoo]

I was in the Japanese work force for over 40 years having worked for Toyo Kogyo (now Mazda), Honda and Toyota. HRD is nothing like the other two from philosophy, work culture and engineering and design methodology and approach.

I have my own ideas on the companys' corporate culture, based on my experience with the end products. It has always been reported that Honda is more engineering-driven and that is evident in the small details of the products. My brother has been trying to restore a Honda S600. Being able to buy many parts new for such a car is a statement in itself. I think commenters need to be clear on "Japanese culture" as common to Japanese companies vs "corporate culture" reflecting the individual company.

Please could you write a brief summary of what you see as the differences between them, from a racing perspective?

[blueytoo]

This japanese article shows RA161H vs RA617H. (Chrome is good for autotranslate. Bad for memory/disc.)
https://motor-fan.jp/article/10002128

To clarify - the link above points to short summary of what is a full special edition magazine on racing published December 2017. About half of the magazine is on Honda F1. Would love to be able to read Japanese and see what it says.....

[Postmoe]

Many references to Japanese culture but I doubt many of the people commenting have worked with the Japanese or have been to Japan.
One of my favorite countries to visit and a fantastic culture. They do work very differently from western culture though.
I've been to Japan to work with Honda R&D before - they are no different from any other Japanese company.

Back on topic - It is very encouraging to see the improved reliability this year so far vs last.
Hopefully Honda does much better this year.

Sorry but we're going to have to disagree. I was in the Japanese work force for over 40 years having worked for Toyo Kogyo (now Mazda), Honda and Toyota. HRD is nothing like the other two from philosophy, work culture and engineering and design methodology and approach.

In the way Oracle is different from Microsoft, but both are american companies?
That would make a lot of sense, because they are very different, but in the eyes of a non-european what strikes the most is their very clear, almost impacting, sense of being american business corporation. They also share a lot.

[blueytoo]

Found this gem of a thread very late. Having reviewed all the nuggets left by wazari-san, it's clear that Toro Rosso should have a good time this year with a competitive reliable Honda engine. The freezing conditions in Barcelona maybe limit the data available on thermal management. (The only major question to me is how soon could Red Bull get a Honda engine in the Red Bull under the rules, since I assume they will be doing behind-the-scens integration work and rolling-road dyno testing under building 9 during the year.)

How much contribution does the Mercedes patented Nanoslide coating make to the Mercedes PU fuel efficiency??? The article claims 3% in a passenger car. Wasari''s fuel consumption data suggests there is 10% to find.

http://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/ ... d=13754136

Can't find the recent daimler combustion patent yet - anyone got ideas?

[Snorked]

This japanese article shows RA161H vs RA617H. (Chrome is good for autotranslate. Bad for memory/disc.)
https://motor-fan.jp/article/10002128

To clarify - the link above points to short summary of what is a full special edition magazine on racing published December 2017. About half of the magazine is on Honda F1. Would love to be able to read Japanese and see what it says.....

Hino translated the full article into english: forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874&start=12660#p733944

I hope he, hasika, Talisman or Wazari has time to have a look at the Feb 2018 one I posted on the previous page. Is there anything new in this one or is it just covering the same areas as Motor Fan's piece?

forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874&start=13230#p743529

[Wazari]

I was in the Japanese work force for over 40 years having worked for Toyo Kogyo (now Mazda), Honda and Toyota. HRD is nothing like the other two from philosophy, work culture and engineering and design methodology and approach.

I have my own ideas on the companys' corporate culture, based on my experience with the end products. It has always been reported that Honda is more engineering-driven and that is evident in the small details of the products. My brother has been trying to restore a Honda S600. Being able to buy many parts new for such a car is a statement in itself. I think commenters need to be clear on "Japanese culture" as common to Japanese companies vs "corporate culture" reflecting the individual company.

Please could you write a brief summary of what you see as the differences between them, from a racing perspective?

A brief summary would take pages. A complete summary would be a long textbook. From a racing perspective? That's a difficult question to answer as racing is just a small sector of each company. One difference is Honda is the only Japanese company I have worked for that really encourages it's designers and engineers to think outside the box. They are nowhere near as rigid in this area as your typical Japanese company. That's one thing I really liked about HRD. Even with the current formula PU, different teams were formed to come up with different ideas and solutions. Soichro-san's basic philosophy of "being rouge is okay" is still there.

I looking forward to this week's testing. I'm sure they will turn up the wick this week. I have had some people PM me saying the 618 is the same PU as the 617. I can assure you it is not. Only the overall the architecture is the same but majority of the components are new and its physical dimensions and weight are also different. So is the efficiency and power....

[McMika98]

I looking forward to this week's testing. I'm sure they will turn up the wick this week. I have had some people PM me saying the 618 is the same PU as the 617. I can assure you it is not. Only the overall the architecture is the same but majority of the components are new and its physical dimensions and weight are also different. So is the efficiency and power....

Likewise, eagerly waiting to see how things pan out. TR are bringing some updates and will definitely run Qual sims like they did last year.
Speaking of qual, Honda says they have qual modes now. Mr Wazari do you think this mode will be burning additional petrochemical product with the allocated fuel ala Merc, Ferrari? Also these figures you say on the dyno, is that with the extra stuff or just the permitted concoction for race?

[Snorked]

Reddit user FCIUS is translating the article:

I'll do the rest once I eat dinner - please ignore any grammatical issues, as I didn't proofread the text.

Also sorry for the sloppy photoshopping.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... h=d3ef5235