General Honda F1 Topic

[PlatinumZealot]

Christian Horner and Matschitz are not that foolish. They will wait to decide by mid-season.

Well obviously not. They have an early May deadline. It basically gives Red Bull the time to observe Honda for four races. Although testing has been positive so far for Honda, I think it is indeed crucial to wait and see how their real relative performance is compared to the other manufacturers. Surely people will arrive with new race-spec versions or unlocked performance modes at the Australian Grand Prix, and it is from there on onwards that Red Bull can judge the situation.

The four opening Races?! There is no point in observing the Spec 1 engine with the old combustion concept, they would have signed with Honda already if they were happy with it at this point. The smart way is waiting for both the "Spec 2" Honda and the "Spec i" Renault engine to hit the track in the European season.

@ Other posters. You guys are twisting the quotations here. Nowhere did Tost, Key or Matechitz say the 2018 Winter spec Honda is stronger than AbuDabi Renault... they did say the difference was small and that's about it. I would peg them at 930hp after some tuning for Australia. All fudge-nudging of course.

[carisi2k]

The Honda in 2018 would be spec 4.x and not spec 1 as the 2017 engine was spec 3.x.

What twisting PZ. Renault's have said there engine is at abu dhabi levels which was actually 915hp according to gps traces posted elsewhere on this forum. Renault have put out a number of 950hp+ for the 2018 engine but the 2017 engine was also supposed to have this number and never reached that level.

The STR Honda was quick in a straight line and nobody was running low downforce last week in those cold conditions. The STR13 was doing long and consistent runs which would seem to put to bed the issues with fuel economy Honda had in 2017. At the very least the Honda was the equal of the Renault in HP terms last week and going off the straight line speeds it would seem they have leap frogged the French Marque.

We will find out more later this week.

[johnny comelately]

They are allowed about 29 grams of fuel per second maximum (rate) and the power figure of 950hp, can someone calculate the energy content of the fuel ?

[godlameroso]

I would think it would be too difficult to change engines mid term unless it was very, very, important. They have a contract with Renault, and other suppliers, they have designed the car around Renault and have taken on sponsors and suppliers as Renault. What about the crash testing and Halo etc? would that carry over with an engine change or would the re-sited engine and different auxiliaries affect this? The engine is a stressed part of the structure is it not? Fuels, Lubricants etc are all geared to Renault.

Even if they move a crew over to the STR shed until the end of this season and switch factory development to the new car with a Honda engine they will hit the ground running next year and a clean slate.

In the mean time they can iron the engine installation, and how to best minimize any negative influence the packaging has on aero this year, so again they can hit the ground running next year.

[godlameroso]

They are allowed about 29 grams of fuel per second maximum (rate) and the power figure of 950hp, can someone calculate the energy content of the fuel ?

Hard to calculate, would you say it's the standard 48MJ/kg and they can just tap into more of that, or is the fuel some higher quantity like say 53MJ/kg and the thermal efficiency is nothing to write home about?

[johnny comelately]

They are allowed about 29 grams of fuel per second maximum (rate) and the power figure of 950hp, can someone calculate the energy content of the fuel ?

Hard to calculate, would you say it's the standard 48MJ/kg and they can just tap into more of that, or is the fuel some higher quantity like say 53MJ/kg and the thermal efficiency is nothing to write home about?

I would have thought the latter except the TE is astounding ??
Someone has to come in and crack the whip about units and time and work and hp ...please

[etusch]

Villadelprat: "McLaren's Honda decision hasty"
Former F1 engineer Joan Villadelprat wonders if McLaren was right to have dumped Honda. Already last week, when Honda's new works partner Toro Rosso topped the mileage charts in Barcelona, driver Brendon Hartley said McLaren's decision may have been a "mistake".

And now, Spanish former F1 engineer Villadelprat also doubts the wisdom of McLaren's Honda axe. "I already had reservations last year and I still do," he told Marca. "I thought it was a hasty change and that they would miss all the advantages. As a customer you always have limitations, especially it seems when you are with Renault. I think French pride will drive them to very much want to beat them (McLaren)," said Villadelprat, who worked for McLaren, Ferrari, Benetton and Prost.

He continued: "I think the McLaren is a very developed car aerodynamically, but as the year progresses, Renault will move ahead. They are not investing all of that money from Paris without their own ambitions."

Villadelprat said all McLaren and Fernando Alonso can realistically hope for, therefore, is fourth place behind F1's existing top three teams. "I do not doubt that Fernando will do podiums, but further than that I think will be very difficult," he added.

And he thinks that with a more reliable and powerful Honda engine, Toro Rosso could be a surprise of 2018. "I do not rule out that they will be together with Renault and McLaren. I know very well that they fit perfectly with Honda and they want the project to work, as does Red Bull. I'm sure they (Red Bull) will take that engine in 2019 and will help in every way to develop it. Honda's potential is enormous if someone helps them to channel it," Villadelprat added. (GMM

https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/2365 ... sion-hasty

[dren]

Hindsight is always great. Here's hoping TR and Honda have a good year.

[Nonserviam85]

I still cannot understand why people are stuck with max HP figures. It is widely acknowledged by now that the Honda PU is lighter and with a lower center of gravity compared to Renault (closest competitor) . So overall even if it produces 10-20Hp lower than Renault can you definitely say it is a worse PU?

[ivanlesk]

I still cannot understand why people are stuck with max HP figures. It is widely acknowledged by now that the Honda PU is lighter and with a lower center of gravity compared to Renault (closest competitor) . So overall even if it produces 10-20Hp lower than Renault can you definitely say it is a worse PU?

Yes, last 3 years

That would be nice.
RB with that package, and Renault and Mclaren with Renault. Assuming that reliability is not problem, we would have nice 2019 track battles.

[Thunder]

I still cannot understand why people are stuck with max HP figures. It is widely acknowledged by now that the Honda PU is lighter and with a lower center of gravity compared to Renault (closest competitor)

To this Date still no one came up with Proof for that Theory. So i don't think "widely acknowledged" is the right Term.

[Big Mangalhit]

So many HP talk around here. I just wished by the end of 2020 they raced every generation of every engine supplier in a spec mule and see how they compare. Especially to see the difference throughout the years.

[techman]

honda engine is par with renault. i believe honda are working on this new combustion process, hopefully it gets them near 980bhp by mid season.

[godlameroso]

That was the 2017 engine, we have no clue what this one is like other than same basic architecture.

[Nonserviam85]

I still cannot understand why people are stuck with max HP figures. It is widely acknowledged by now that the Honda PU is lighter and with a lower center of gravity compared to Renault (closest competitor)

To this Date still no one came up with Proof for that Theory. So i don't think "widely acknowledged" is the right Term.

OK, maybe it is not true (although I seem to remember that Toro Rosso engineers mentioned that last year) but let's discuss it as a general statement. A lighter and with lower centre of gravity PU might be better overall than a PU with slightly higher power output. Same applies if an engine has lower cooling requirements, it is more efficient with fuel or can sustain max power output longer. So IMO people should not be so obsessed with maximum Power output