2018 pre-season testing thread

[Ishwar030]

Mercedes W09 and Ferrari SF71H Wheelbase

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... 692287.jpg

Does that mean that the W09 is shorter than the W08?

According to Formula 1 website, 80mm Shorter.

[johnny comelately]

Indeed. Mercedes trucks run forever and have tons of power. Thinking about it Ferrari, Renault and Honda don't have the sheer amount long term experience of dealing with the hugely powerful turbo engines that Mercedes do.

In fact, Renault and Ferrari have had the experience of building Turbo engines for F1 and they didn't get it right for 2014, whereas Mercedes who had NO experience of F1 turbo engines, not just built a powerful one, but also managed to create Split Turbo-Compressor, which no one had thought about. That gave the chassis construction a big boost for packaging. Over the past years, a lot of people try to discredit Mercedes saying, they started early and all that kind of stuff and they do not realize was, it was such an easy thing to get it wrong! By 2012, Mercedes share holders were already calling for pulling the plug on F1 program and their racing team was badly struggling and staring at 5th place finish. Under such circumstances, there should have been enormous pressure on people who were working on F1 project (PU and Chassis), because they were all staring at losing their jobs, had they got it wrong. That is why the architects of their success (Brawn, John Owen, Geoff Willis, Mike Elliott, Andy Cowell, Aldo Costa), deserve all the credit in the world.

Based on all these early reports about various different experts, Ferrari probably have a W08 in their hands and IF INDEED that is true, then we have an opportunity to witness if they have enough strength in depth and can do a Mercedes OR NOT. Was SF70h (2017) was born due to the unlimited wind tunnel time used with the Haas loop hole from 2015 OR do they really have strength in depth that can churn quick & right solutions in quick time.

I know this is not F1 but "The 5.0 L M119 was also adapted for racing with the addition of two turbochargers. It won the 1989 24 Hours of Le Mans in the Sauber C9 and was further used in the Mercedes-Benz C11"
It would be interesting to know if they drew from any previous experience.

[dans79]

Mercedes W09 and Ferrari SF71H Wheelbase

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... 692287.jpg

Does that mean that the W09 is shorter than the W08?

According to Formula 1 website, 80mm Shorter.

The question would be is the website wrong or did Toto fib?

[Chene_Mostert]

Did some quick analysis of data. https://mega.nz/#F!q2pCyAoI!feD_17dILKBlstajyBPoOw. Currently working on my Swift so only Excel available. once I get home ill run the numbers trough JMP or Statistica. this should give us a clearer indication ( We need to check within group and between group variation for Stints and drivers) Some ANOVA and distributional fitting should help clear the picture.
So far:
Ferrari clearly bagging sand.
Seb does show his hand a bit in the middle of his second stint.
Kimmi, I don't know what they were doing?
Seb by far the most consistent ( driving to a delta in first, first half of second and last stint) his times is metronomical compared to the others.

All this "crisisis" created by the speculative Journos are just red herigs.
Weelbase no problem (surely they validated design against last year?)

Consumption: lets think logically, these cars only carry about 5l of oil, lets say they burned 4 of the five liters during a race last year (they cannot burn all as the engine will not have lubricant). so this year they are short 4 L of combustable over 60 odd laps... hardly going to force "fuel saving" over a whole race distance... come on... we are all intelligent, no need to just absorb what the "Xpert" journos say... we need to think further.

As for the smoking and breather positioning, could Ferrari be trying crank case blowing? Ill research and brainstorm with some intellectuals around this idea....
Anyways please have a look at the data, check for any errors, I just did a quick and dirty while still waiting for my transit back home.it is likely that I missed / duplicated some lap times.

[GoranF1]

F1 metrics

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2018/03 ... ssion=true

[dans79]

So far:
Ferrari clearly bagging sand.
Seb does show his hand a bit in the middle of his second stint.
Kimmi, I don't know what they were doing?
Seb by far the most consistent ( driving to a delta in first, first half of second and last stint) his times is metronomical compared to the others.

All this "crisisis" created by the speculative Journos are just red herigs.
Weelbase no problem (surely they validated design against last year?)

I think you are interpreting the data to show the result you want. Imo, Vettel isn't sandbagging, he's driving to a delta because he had an extended stint.

And the wheelbase, is just your opinion, no one on this forum knows how well data correlates from one year to the next if a team makes a change. The whole reason the teams do testing is so that they can validate that data is good or bad.

[Vanja #66]

The question would be is the website wrong or did Toto fib?

I doubt Mark Hughes or Piola would risk their reputations with false information, on an official website.

[giantfan10]

Again I just don’t understand how people are making the assessment that redbull is ahead of Ferrari. Even excluding Verstappen’s spin, the Ferrari was consistently lapping faster. Now the new rumour is they had to drive to a delta to save fuel - but were still faster than redbull. Something just isn’t adding up... it’s been a weird preseason.

There are two factors at work in this assessment of RB being ahead of Ferrari. 1) Ferrari driving to a delta to save fuel & 2) Renault running their power units turned down. Ferrari is having issues in fuel consumption. The new oil burning clampdown has hit them the hardest. This may be a big issue and Ferrari will need time to find a fix. Renault too will run the PU turned down for quite a few months till they get their own ERS. However, RB will have a great upgrade package for Australia. Ferrari I'm not so sure. Many media guys (reliable ones) are saying that Ferrari are not yet fully on top of how to run the car with that High Rake. This again would need time to find a fix. RB and Merc are known to run heavy in testing. Ferrari not so. Hence, the consensus is RB is ahead of Ferrari. I hope not but i am pretty convinced about this.

Only time will tell I suppose. No doubt merc and RB both ran heavy, but I don’t think ferrari’s “quali sims” were done with 3 laps of fuel either. I think the fuel consumption issue is the most pressing, but again they have managed better pace in a race sim despite that.

I’m all for a 3 horse race, and I hope it is. I’m only struggling to reconcile the data with what is being reported. Granted the Ferrari is getting through its fuel - it still went faster than the RB?!

this post is interesting.
lets review the main points you made.
"I think the fuel consumption issue is the most pressing" what fuel consumption issue is the million dollar question???...here are the facts: during Vettels race simulation his lack of tire wear and consistency in lap times followed by a very fast lap at the end of a stint brings one conclusion that most take as true.. Vettel was driving around to a delta. SPECULATION by the british media is that he was masking his performance because of fuel consumption issues. How they came to this conclusion we will never know. common sense says he was masking his performance... why he was masking his performance could be down to sandbagging... is that an option maybe? : )

"are saying that Ferrari are not yet fully on top of how to run the car with that High Rake"
Are you aware that Ferrari ran with high rake last year and led the championship for most of the year?

"The new oil burning clampdown has hit them the hardest. This may be a big issue and Ferrari will need time to find a fix." So Ferrari just discovered oil burning was outlawed this year?
Mercedes who designed their engine from day 1 to burn oil and did gymnastics last year to get around the initial oil burning reduction will suffer no effects?....didnt both manufacturers find out the new regs at the same time? what was Ferrari doing all offseason?

"RB and Merc are known to run heavy in testing. Ferrari not so." I have always wondered where this gem came from....so when Vettel said that he had plenty of fuel after his race sim he was just flat out lying?...RB put on the hypersoft and set a time..Ferrari puts on the hypersoft and sets a time and was faster along with being faster in the race sim..... how does that point to RB being faster?
i will say it now i have no clue which car is ahead other than Merc rb and Ferrari being the top 3 thats my stance.I just hate how speculation by journalists is then argued as fact here.

[TAG]

There a whole lot of rationalization going on at the moment round here.

[trinidefender]

The question would be is the website wrong or did Toto fib?

I doubt Mark Hughes or Piola would risk their reputations with false information, on an official website.

There's no way to 100% validate that data so they are actually risking very little....at the same time teams lie to the media all the time so honestly could probably be either

[Restomaniac]

Did some quick analysis of data. https://mega.nz/#F!q2pCyAoI!feD_17dILKBlstajyBPoOw. Currently working on my Swift so only Excel available. once I get home ill run the numbers trough JMP or Statistica. this should give us a clearer indication ( We need to check within group and between group variation for Stints and drivers) Some ANOVA and distributional fitting should help clear the picture.
So far:
Ferrari clearly bagging sand.
Seb does show his hand a bit in the middle of his second stint.
Kimmi, I don't know what they were doing?
Seb by far the most consistent ( driving to a delta in first, first half of second and last stint) his times is metronomical compared to the others.

All this "crisisis" created by the speculative Journos are just red herigs.
Weelbase no problem (surely they validated design against last year?)

Consumption: lets think logically, these cars only carry about 5l of oil, lets say they burned 4 of the five liters during a race last year (they cannot burn all as the engine will not have lubricant). so this year they are short 4 L of combustable over 60 odd laps... hardly going to force "fuel saving" over a whole race distance... come on... we are all intelligent, no need to just absorb what the "Xpert" journos say... we need to think further.

As for the smoking and breather positioning, could Ferrari be trying crank case blowing? Ill research and brainstorm with some intellectuals around this idea....
Anyways please have a look at the data, check for any errors, I just did a quick and dirty while still waiting for my transit back home.it is likely that I missed / duplicated some lap times.

When you say 'I'll research and brainstorm with some intellectuals' I assume you mean you will talk with you fellow Ferrari fans? Just asking.

[Restomaniac]

There a whole lot of rationalization going on at the moment round here.

Indeed and all of it unbiased. Obviously.

[Restomaniac]

Mercedes W09 and Ferrari SF71H Wheelbase

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... 692287.jpg

Does that mean that the W09 is shorter than the W08?

According to Formula 1 website, 80mm Shorter.

So they went for the middle ground between their 2017 length and the Ferrari/RB model and increased rake slightly. Now who was one of the ones one here who said they may do this..................

If those numbers on length are true Mercedes have also slightly given up their advantage on certain tracks too.

[Fer.Fan]

this post is interesting.
lets review the main points you made.
"I think the fuel consumption issue is the most pressing" what fuel consumption issue is the million dollar question???...here are the facts: during Vettels race simulation his lack of tire wear and consistency in lap times followed by a very fast lap at the end of a stint brings one conclusion that most take as true.. Vettel was driving around to a delta. SPECULATION by the british media is that he was masking his performance because of fuel consumption issues. How they came to this conclusion we will never know. common sense says he was masking his performance... why he was masking his performance could be down to sandbagging... is that an option maybe? : )

"are saying that Ferrari are not yet fully on top of how to run the car with that High Rake"
Are you aware that Ferrari ran with high rake last year and led the championship for most of the year?

"The new oil burning clampdown has hit them the hardest. This may be a big issue and Ferrari will need time to find a fix." So Ferrari just discovered oil burning was outlawed this year?
Mercedes who designed their engine from day 1 to burn oil and did gymnastics last year to get around the initial oil burning reduction will suffer no effects?....didnt both manufacturers find out the new regs at the same time? what was Ferrari doing all offseason?

"RB and Merc are known to run heavy in testing. Ferrari not so." I have always wondered where this gem came from....so when Vettel said that he had plenty of fuel after his race sim he was just flat out lying?...RB put on the hypersoft and set a time..Ferrari puts on the hypersoft and sets a time and was faster along with being faster in the race sim..... how does that point to RB being faster?
i will say it now i have no clue which car is ahead other than Merc rb and Ferrari being the top 3 thats my stance.I just hate how speculation by journalists is then argued as fact here.
[/quote]

[Big Tea]

I have read reviews that on Merc's race sim runs the early times fall as expected but later in the race they do not.

Is it possible that Merc were running laps that did not fall to the expected time because at a set point, where they would expect to be in control of the race, they were testing something like 'conservation mode'? The opposite of quali mode where instead of going to high stress and burning oil, they are testing a mode to make the engine last longer while giving acceptable power, and also not burning oil. A few laps with low oil use allows a few early laps with high oil use to get away and they still stay legal?