Wind-generated electricity in cars

[roost89]

In the light of all these Hybrid vehicles in development and the general movement towards electric cars. I was thinking...would it be possible to use a small turbine(s) in a car to generate electricity?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[WhiteBlue]

it doesn't make much sense. it would worsen the drag of the chassis. exhaust kinetic energy turbine (like turbocharger) would probably make more sense if you can't afford the parasitic loss of engine power.

[roost89]

it doesn't make much sense. it would worsen the drag of the chassis. exhaust kinetic energy turbine (like turbocharger) would probably make more sense if you can't afford the parasitic loss of engine power.

My idea would be to re-charge the batteries in an electrically powered car. Could the electricity generated replace that lost? Even if it's by 10 or so miles.
Most cars I've heard about in development have an operating range of about 60 miles and struggle to reach 100 miles on pure electricity.

I think small wind-generators in the brake-ducts. While still allowing air to flow through.

The drag created is a good point. I have a feeling that'd be a deciding factor, aswell as weight.

[WhiteBlue]

I am wondering if Ferrari achieved their rumored 25 bhp advantage by powering some anxilliaries like oil pumps and air compressor by an electric system which would be either charged by an exhaust turbine or even an electric generator powered under braking by the rear wheels. I think that such a solution would be legal in F1. it would not lead to increased drag like the turbine that you propose.

For an electric powered car it would not make sense at all. apply a thermodynamic energy balance and you immediately see that you are creating a loop that will only loose you energy.

[G-Rock]

How about a smaller version of an industrial wind turbine bolted to the car. If it works on land, it should work on a moving vehicle. The faster you go the more electricity you make, the more hp you have at your disposal. A stationary wind turbine on the other hand relies on the wind (which can vary)
The drag of the turbine can be minimized by making the post and nacelle more streamlined.
It wouldn't work for F1 though since it would probably look ridiculous. For road cars though it could have potential.

[WhiteBlue]

How about a smaller version of an industrial wind turbine bolted to the car. If it works on land, it should work on a moving vehicle. The faster you go the more electricity you make, the more hp you have at your disposal. A stationary wind turbine on the other hand relies on the wind (which can vary)
The drag of the turbine can be minimized by making the post and nacelle more streamlined.
It wouldn't work for F1 though since it would probably look ridiculous. For road cars though it could have potential.

apply a thermodynamic energy balance and you immediately see that you are creating a loop that will only loose you energy. the wind energy must come from somewhere. obviously from your engine. so if you are accelerating it would reduce the amount of power available for acceleration. if you are going flat out it would reduce your top speed by increased drag. only for braking it could be usefull but then again KERS would make more sense. I repeat: an exhaust turbine generator makes more sense if you do not use the kinetic energy to compress your intake air.

in military aviation this is called a RAT. Ram Air Turbine. they deploy such a folded in device to provide emergency power generation when accident or battle damage has interrupted servo power to provide hydraulic power for the control surfaces. I hope the F1 RAT and the road car RAT will not be needed!

[Ciro Pabón]

I think there is no hope for wind turbines in cars. You get more energy using gasoline directly in the car's engine, instead of using gasoline to power the wind turbine and get electricity back.

Microturbines are other thing. They're extremely efficient, when coupled with a steam engine. You can conceive a car with a really small microturbine that feeds the electric system or any other "energy container". Velozzi claims they can give you 80 km/lt or 200 mpg.

Velozzi car, 0-100 km/hr in 3 seconds, 320 km/hr top speed

[roost89]

So wind-turbines are out. But something along the lines of fossil fueled turbine could possibly work. I can't see the Velozzi car coming to anything though, good concept but I can't see it happening.

[WhiteBlue]

that is pretty much the same concept you use in stationary applications where you couple a gas turbine with a steam turbine Rankine process. eficiency good be up to 55%. its pretty much an integrated HERS design.

[G-Rock]

Roost, don't give up hope brother. I thought about it and todays wind generators aren't efficient enough to produce a "net gain" in power on the highway...but when parked you could have a telescoping wind turbine on your car that will charge your car while you're at the pub. I think, that where ever there is a few square meters available, whether on a building, house, field or car, there should be a turbine or solar panel generating electricity. It's free right. Then when the manufacturers perfect the car-turbine we will be driving for free too.

[joseff]

...where you couple a gas turbine with a steam turbine Rankine process. eficiency good be up to 55%.

In fact I've seen "up to 60%" claims... but when you pair a piston engine + rankine cycle turbine, you get...

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/02 ... archi.html

Test results showed that in 100 kph (62 miles/hour) constant-speed driving, the use of the Rankine cycle improved the thermal efficiency of the engine by 3.8%.

So... 3.8% on top of the 33%-ish efficiency of the Honda Stream 2.0L NA engine. Hardly impressive. I'm wondering if they'd be better off bolting on a turbo instead.

[roost89]

Roost, don't give up hope brother. I thought about it and todays wind generators aren't efficient enough to produce a "net gain" in power on the highway...but when parked you could have a telescoping wind turbine on your car that will charge your car while you're at the pub. I think, that where ever there is a few square meters available, whether on a building, house, field or car, there should be a turbine or solar panel generating electricity. It's free right. Then when the manufacturers perfect the car-turbine we will be driving for free too.

I think that all roof-space should have some sort of "renewable" energy capture on it. Fields are needed for food
The telescoping wind turbine sounds good though. I can see design troubles though. I wans't hoping for "net gain" as it were. Just a longer driving period of several miles, without the need to go onto fossil fuel.

[G-Rock]

I think that all roof-space should have some sort of "renewable" energy capture on it. Fields are needed for food
The telescoping wind turbine sounds good though. I can see design troubles though. I wans't hoping for "net gain" as it were. Just a longer driving period of several miles, without the need to go onto fossil fuel.

Yes fields are needed for food but a wind turbine only requires a few square meters plus a laneway.

That being said, even with the techology out there today, we as a civilization are doomed. There is nothing that can replace oil yet. We had better hurry up and invent something fast or it's gonna be one big shitstorm (probably in our lifetime)