Is Aerodynamic Design influenced by the Animal Kingdom?

[J.A.W.]

Seems like lions may well have aero, downforce, steering, & suspension - performance insights to offer..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcEFTGb_ZR0

[Vyssion]

Seems like lions may well have aero, downforce, steering, & suspension - performance insights to offer..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcEFTGb_ZR0

I mean, the male lions have built in flow visualization too!!

[Just_a_fan]

Half expected the lioness to break a hind leg in that jump/fall. The way her back end crumples down on to the ground as she lands. You or I would be hospital...

[J.A.W.]

Surely they do, V..
& this big, bad-as dude, even has the power to.. 'walk 'n' talk' - a real mean croc - back into goin' - with the flow..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbm-P7jaa_c

(Do you think.. maybe they hired him.. to put the 'hard word' - on ol' Bernie? L.O.L.)

[trinidefender]

Look at the front wings of most cars, the flaps responsible for the y250 look an awful lot like bird wing tips, just inverted.

The Y250 flaps are trying to make a really strong single vortex. The bird's wing isn't.

I can position the fingers of my hand to mimic the wing tip primaries of a bird. Will my hand do the same as the wing and let me flyyyyyyy? Er, nope.

Good question, are your fingers airfoil shaped? If not I'd say you're at a slight disadvantage.

You're completely ignoring the fact that the inside of the front wing and the edge of the toucan wing are built for almost the exactly opposite characteristics. The toucan wing is designed to reduce the vortex as much as possible and therefore reduce drag. The inside of the front wing is designed to create a vortex to do a very specific job.

I'm fairly certain you are just seeing random similarities between them and think that that is the answer.

On another note, if you see 5 buildings that create a start when lines are drawn between them does this mean that they are illuminati controlled buildings?

[godlameroso]

The Y250 flaps are trying to make a really strong single vortex. The bird's wing isn't.

I can position the fingers of my hand to mimic the wing tip primaries of a bird. Will my hand do the same as the wing and let me flyyyyyyy? Er, nope.

Good question, are your fingers airfoil shaped? If not I'd say you're at a slight disadvantage.

You're completely ignoring the fact that the inside of the front wing and the edge of the toucan wing are built for almost the exactly opposite characteristics. The toucan wing is designed to reduce the vortex as much as possible and therefore reduce drag. The inside of the front wing is designed to create a vortex to do a very specific job.

I'm fairly certain you are just seeing random similarities between them and think that that is the answer.

On another note, if you see 5 buildings that create a start when lines are drawn between them does this mean that they are illuminati controlled buildings?

Oh lordy. In the hopes of not beating a dead horse I already understand and have stated numerous times that a birds create lift(+), F1 cars create lift(-). I'm not new here, I would hope you know I understand the difference. I've stated many times that the concepts have to be INVERTED for them to work with an F1 car. But that doesn't mean that the concepts don't work, clearly they do, or the creatures that exploit these concepts wouldn't have them(nature is much more efficient at design that we are). Vortecies form in drain tubs and tornadoes, meaning that aerodynamic phenomena works for everyone equally, it's completely progressive.

Apparently it's too much of a stretch to think some bird brain aerodynamicist is having separation problems in a certain area, and then looks to see how nature has dealt with the problem. Apparently it's too much of a stretch to think nature after millions of years of evolution would have come up with a better solution than some bird brain in a wind tunnel after a few years.

I guess I'm just seeing things when structures on birds that are designed to control airflow end up on F1 cars for the same exact purpose, yep, I'm just seeing things.

[PhillipM]

It is when the pressure gradient, flow direction and purpose of them are all different, yes.

[Just_a_fan]

I guess I'm just seeing things when structures on birds that are designed to control airflow end up on F1 cars for the same exact purpose, yep, I'm just seeing things.

What on a bird is copied on F1 cars for the same exact purpose? The wing flaps you pointed to on the car are not doing the same job as the wing end feathers on the bird. The VGs on top of the McLaren side pods have no corresponding structure on a bird. The rear diffuser has no corresponding structure on a bird.

[J.A.W.]

What on a bird is copied on F1 cars...The rear diffuser has no corresponding structure on a bird.

Bird tail shape/function - a "rear diffuser"?

[johnny comelately]

I guess I'm just seeing things when structures on birds that are designed to control airflow end up on F1 cars for the same exact purpose, yep, I'm just seeing things.

What on a bird is copied on F1 cars for the same exact purpose? The wing flaps you pointed to on the car are not doing the same job as the wing end feathers on the bird. The VGs on top of the McLaren side pods have no corresponding structure on a bird. The rear diffuser has no corresponding structure on a bird.

Neither are flying bricks

[J.A.W.]

Half expected the lioness to break a hind leg in that jump/fall. The way her back end crumples down on to the ground as she lands. You or I would be hospital...

Indeed J-a-f, let alone a 350lb human female, so for sure, those cats are far more athletically capable than us for such activities, as research into their musculo-skeletal systems shows, inc' individual muscle-fibre power 3 times that of even trained human athletes.. see: http://jeb.biologists.org/content/216/6/960.full

Maybe some future gene splicing for drivers?

[Just_a_fan]

Bird tail shape/function - a "rear diffuser"?

http://i.stack.imgur.com/Ki6tv.png

No. A bird's tail is an active control surface that is used to impart roll and pitch moments to the bird's body. A car's diffuser is a passive device intended solely to reduce the air speed, and hence increase the pressure, of the air flow below the car before the flow joins the freestream flow. It reduces drag and lift that way.

[Just_a_fan]

Maybe some future gene splicing for drivers?

The drivers are catty enough now, imagine some big cat genes in them - they'd be unmanageable!

[J.A.W.]

Bird tail shape/function - a "rear diffuser"?

http://i.stack.imgur.com/Ki6tv.png

No. A bird's tail is an active control surface that is used to impart roll and pitch moments to the bird's body. A car's diffuser is a passive device intended solely to reduce the air speed, and hence increase the pressure, of the air flow below the car before the flow joins the freestream flow. It reduces drag and lift that way.

Could it be, part of the active function set of the bird's tail - is to do just that - such as in ground effects situations?

[trinidefender]

Good question, are your fingers airfoil shaped? If not I'd say you're at a slight disadvantage.

You're completely ignoring the fact that the inside of the front wing and the edge of the toucan wing are built for almost the exactly opposite characteristics. The toucan wing is designed to reduce the vortex as much as possible and therefore reduce drag. The inside of the front wing is designed to create a vortex to do a very specific job.

I'm fairly certain you are just seeing random similarities between them and think that that is the answer.

On another note, if you see 5 buildings that create a start when lines are drawn between them does this mean that they are illuminati controlled buildings?

Oh lordy. In the hopes of not beating a dead horse I already understand and have stated numerous times that a birds create lift(+), F1 cars create lift(-). I'm not new here, I would hope you know I understand the difference. I've stated many times that the concepts have to be INVERTED for them to work with an F1 car. But that doesn't mean that the concepts don't work, clearly they do, or the creatures that exploit these concepts wouldn't have them(nature is much more efficient at design that we are). Vortecies form in drain tubs and tornadoes, meaning that aerodynamic phenomena works for everyone equally, it's completely progressive.

Apparently it's too much of a stretch to think some bird brain aerodynamicist is having separation problems in a certain area, and then looks to see how nature has dealt with the problem. Apparently it's too much of a stretch to think nature after millions of years of evolution would have come up with a better solution than some bird brain in a wind tunnel after a few years.

I guess I'm just seeing things when structures on birds that are designed to control airflow end up on F1 cars for the same exact purpose, yep, I'm just seeing things.

The odd thing is by your response you clearly didn't read my post carefully. It is not about which force vector the lift is in. In fact the force vector can be sideways for all I care.

The point I was trying to make is that even though they look vaguely similar, the 2 things (bird wing tips and the wing tips on the inside of and F1 car front wing) are designed to do opposite jobs. The goal of the toucans wings are to produce the highest L/D ratio to enable the most optimal flight characteristics. The drag is reduced by reducing the vortex causing adverse pressure gradient the most at the wing tips.

On the other hand, the inside of the F1 front wing has a completely different job (AGAIN THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WHETHER THE FORCE VECTOR IS UP OR DOWN OR EVEN SIDEWAYS). This job is to create a vortex and this vortex is used to control wake further back in the car. F1 cars are not drag sensitive and usually an increase in downforce far exceeds an increase in drag as far as lap times are concerned. Therefore encouraging and controlling the formation of this vortex is paramount to the performance of an F1 car.

The vortex created by the inside of the F1 wing creates a lot of drag, something that the toucan is trying to avoid. Hence the opposite job.

I think you misunderstand many here. No one is saying we can't learn from animals and their evolutionary traits. What people are trying to express to you is simply that just because something looks similar does not mean that there is automatically some parallel to the animal kingdom.