Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

[DarkAlman]

Angle on the wastegate isn't right

It was from the rear wing support, either hydraulic fluid cooking off or a sign there is a vent hole through there.

*puts Tinfoil hat on*

If you had a vent through the rear pillar and bisected the exhaust could you run exhaust through the rear wing to stall it ala F-Duct?

No signs of this though, the exhaust isn't bisected and there's no visible slots in the rear wing.

[NathanOlder]

Hydraulic fluid for the drs.

I watched it over & over & it seemed more like smoke/steam.

Its fluid 100%, watch this video in maximum resolution, around the 19 second mark on the video. Its fluid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAhbfZIQCXQ

[PhillipM]

No, regs prevent any opening in the exhaust like that, it was just hydraulic oil for the DRS blowing out.

[DiogoBrand]

No, regs prevent any opening in the exhaust like that, it was just hydraulic oil for the DRS blowing out.

Not only they prevent an opening in the exhaust, but after the F-Duct I think they forbid air to be channeled through the wing support.



Forgive me for being late to the subject, I haven't really looked into it yet.

The downward shape of the cape to me indicates that there would be a higher pressure below it than above it. Wouldn't that create a vortice in the opposite direction of the Y250, therefore cancelling it?

[PhillipM]

Air is already rolling over the nose like that anyway, I think the first part of the cape is just cleaning up the flow that does roll over.

[Vanja #66]

Air coming from the nose is going forward and downward, so it's 99% safe to say it's coming straight onto cape's leading edge. Top of the cape is at higher pressure than bottom, so these additions probably add some downforce without disturbing air under the nose too much. Curved leading edge is scooping more air very likely, while flap at the rear is doing the same as any other wing flap. Somewhere in there is flow management with the vortices this cape makes, as well.

[godlameroso]

Do you think maybe Mercedes has a car with too much downforce? In other words it's gained in handling, but it's also gained in drag, more so than the engine can make up for. It'll be interesting to see how tire wear affects them on tracks that force them to trim out wing to get higher top speed. Bahrain just so happens to be a circuit with these qualities.

[wesley123]

The downward shape of the cape to me indicates that there would be a higher pressure below it than above it. Wouldn't that create a vortice in the opposite direction of the Y250, therefore cancelling it?

If I remember correctly high pressure moves towards low pressure. Which means on the wingtip it rotates counter clockwise off the tip, whereas on the cape it'll roll on top, also moving counter clockwise.

There is a reasonable distance between both, and considering the batwing behind I don't think they are intended to merge. Looking at it with my CFD-eyes suggests me that the cape's vortex is aimed at the bargeboard itself, more specifically at the horizontal plate at the bottom. Whereas the Y250 is aimed at pushing wheel wake away.

[godlameroso]

The downward shape of the cape to me indicates that there would be a higher pressure below it than above it. Wouldn't that create a vortice in the opposite direction of the Y250, therefore cancelling it?

If I remember correctly high pressure moves towards low pressure. Which means on the wingtip it rotates counter clockwise off the tip, whereas on the cape it'll roll on top, also moving counter clockwise.

There is a reasonable distance between both, and considering the batwing behind I don't think they are intended to merge. Looking at it with my CFD-eyes suggests me that the cape's vortex is aimed at the bargeboard itself, more specifically at the horizontal plate at the bottom. Whereas the Y250 is aimed at pushing wheel wake away.

The higher pressure is still on top of the cape, the air that spills off the nose has higher pressure than the faster moving air under the cape. I know it's counter intuitive, but the flow vector means the top side is the high pressure side. The cape isn't the only aero surface on the car that has a raised leading edge, the floor and rear wing are also like this, however they generate a net downforce.

[JasonF1]

Do you think maybe Mercedes has a car with too much downforce? In other words it's gained in handling, but it's also gained in drag, more so than the engine can make up for. It'll be interesting to see how tire wear affects them on tracks that force them to trim out wing to get higher top speed. Bahrain just so happens to be a circuit with these qualities.

What I think is happening for Melbourne is that it is one of those street cricuits that the W09's philosophy is not optimised for, as such they packed on more downforce than ideal. So it looks like they were ready to sacrifice a bit of top speed for much better cornering speed as the straights are not too long.

Another factor is that the Ferrari engine is not lagging that much behind the Mercedes, however many people thinks their PU is still dominant due to the 2014-2016 domination.

[Vanja #66]

Do you think maybe Mercedes has a car with too much downforce? In other words it's gained in handling, but it's also gained in drag, more so than the engine can make up for. It'll be interesting to see how tire wear affects them on tracks that force them to trim out wing to get higher top speed. Bahrain just so happens to be a circuit with these qualities.

Here's a post from Ferrari car thread:

I was surprised to see higher AoA of RW on Ferrari than Merc. Drag of these cars is generated mostly by tyres, then rear wing. The fact is combination of Ferrari PU and car (with this AoA of RW) was faster in straight line than combination of Merc PU and their car in qualy sessions in Australia. There are several explanations for this, but it's either Ferrari generating less drag, or Merc not running full Q3 power mode. Hamilton said he changed nothing from Q2, Wolff said they used Q3 mode in fact, so they are making sure competition stays clueless about their PU potential.

If it's in fact Ferrari generating less drag (for now, as they had to run lower rake angle), I wouldn't be surprised. W08 and W09 have a lot of vortex generating surfaces on their car. Vortices induce drag. Contrary to that, Ferrari have reduced the number of theses surfaces in barge board and side pod deflector areas. Even Hamilton commented on how fast they were in straight line.

But this cape on Merc isn't that much of a drag. There is even a possibility it could generate thrust, though very unlikely.

[godlameroso]

Part of the drag advantage may be that the diffuser partially stalls for Ferrari. Which could be why they run lower FW AOA. Mercedes has the opposite problem, so like in 2013 they qualify really well, but the performance converges in the race.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the development direction go to lower drag a bit.

[Vanja #66]

I don't think you'd want your diffuser to stall. It would mess up entire flow under the car, including barge boards and front wing, leading to instability in braking.

[JasonF1]

There are several explanations for this, but it's either Ferrari generating less drag, or Merc not running full Q3 power mode. Hamilton said he changed nothing from Q2, Wolff said they used Q3 mode in fact, so they are making sure competition stays clueless about their PU potential.

Did you read Mark Hughes on Motorsport Magazine? He said that Lewis didn't run his ultimate qualifying performance in Q3 (worth about 2 tenths) because they thought they had a pace advantage. This is corroborated by the fact that Vettel said it seems like Mercedes has lost abit of qualifying performance while on the other hand, Lewis has said that their "party mode" is now the strongest it's ever been.

[CriXus]

I don't think you'd want your diffuser to stall. It would mess up entire flow under the car, including barge boards and front wing, leading to instability in braking.

Yes, that is what Vettel has been complaining about. So, for sure, Mercedes would not want that.