2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

[godlameroso]

If McLaren really has massive downforce China will be a better track for them because you need a lot of stick for everything except that long straight. You gain so much by being able to get on the power sooner and carrying more speed through the medium and low speed stuff that it's worth it to take the drag hit. All the corners in China are dominated by long painful mid corner sections. It's a real front end aero test, here McLaren can really put their money where their mouth is.

They did perform well there in China last year during. I think Fernando retired from 7th due to engine crapping out after horrible Bahrain, ofcourse the conditions played a roll but still. However I feel like MCL33 is no where is good as MCL32.

It's at least as good if not slightly better aerodynamically, and as time passes and more parts end up on the car we'll see the car move up. Already the race pace is good, Alonso was at least .2 seconds faster than any other midfielder, unfortunately he was stuck in traffic, but had he been in front he would have waltzed off.

[TheFluffy]

If McLaren really has massive downforce China will be a better track for them because you need a lot of stick for everything except that long straight. You gain so much by being able to get on the power sooner and carrying more speed through the medium and low speed stuff that it's worth it to take the drag hit. All the corners in China are dominated by long painful mid corner sections. It's a real front end aero test, here McLaren can really put their money where their mouth is.

They did perform well there in China last year during. I think Fernando retired from 7th due to engine crapping out after horrible Bahrain, ofcourse the conditions played a roll but still. However I feel like MCL33 is no where is good as MCL32.

It's at least as good if not slightly better aerodynamically, and as time passes and more parts end up on the car we'll see the car move up. Already the race pace is good, Alonso was at least .2 seconds faster than any other midfielder, unfortunately he was stuck in traffic, but had he been in front he would have waltzed off.

It really depends what do you mean by "good". By last year's term, they were classifying their chassis to be the "best" and on par with Red Bull. If this is the case then it was not good, probably using this quote as a marketing stunt to attract sponsors. Also, they kept mentioning about the "GPS cornering speed", but if the car has a lower top speed on the straights, naturally it would be easier to get around a corner without losing much speed relative to others who have higher top speeds.

But, good last year can also mean behind the 4th best behind the Big Three, if that is the criteria then for last year the chassis was good. This year, its just the matter they couldn't really develop their car due to production problems and cooling problems occupying their time. So their car relatively is worse, its not actually worse. What I find interesting is that this year's car clearly shows all the flaws that remained hidden last year
1. The top speed deficit was partly due to their high drag concept
2. Reliability was not only Honda's fault
2(a) People normally associate all Mclaren's failures last year was due to Honda, but if you guys remember the failure in Melbourne, China, and (arguably) Bahrain where his engine "had a problem" were Mclaren's suspension problems.
3. People still believe that Mclaren is a top team, like in 2007-8 challenging with the Ferraris. But this is not the case. They are not bad, still one of the best. But structurally, and its organisation and skills, it is just a notch behind the top 3 who spend more money than them (so naturally better talented people). Even the people inside Mclaren believe that they are so good that from the media we are given the impression that Mclaren didn't give Honda much room to work with their engine whereas Toro Rosso focused on giving them as much freedom as possible so they can create a reliable and maybe even powerful engine.
4. This year the Toro Rosso clearly shows the importance of being not a customer team, just as Ron Dennis said. Optimising the engine packaging is so importance.

I think around Spain is a good time to measure Mclaren's speed, but they should gradually become the 4th best team (I believe they are bringing the new nose to China??). I fully expect them to be the fourth fastest team by the end of season as much lots of paddock talk before the season was Renault to be the 4th....

[makecry]

If McLaren really has massive downforce China will be a better track for them because you need a lot of stick for everything except that long straight. You gain so much by being able to get on the power sooner and carrying more speed through the medium and low speed stuff that it's worth it to take the drag hit. All the corners in China are dominated by long painful mid corner sections. It's a real front end aero test, here McLaren can really put their money where their mouth is.

They did perform well there in China last year during. I think Fernando retired from 7th due to engine crapping out after horrible Bahrain, ofcourse the conditions played a roll but still. However I feel like MCL33 is no where is good as MCL32.

It's at least as good if not slightly better aerodynamically, and as time passes and more parts end up on the car we'll see the car move up. Already the race pace is good, Alonso was at least .2 seconds faster than any other midfielder, unfortunately he was stuck in traffic, but had he been in front he would have waltzed off.

I think the car has suffered mechanically a lot. Last year they had the trick suspension mercedes and redbull were using and then they also could squat car on straights. AMuS reported this. Could they have lost this capability this year somehow? I am almost certain that they are not able to get as much traction as they would like from the rear suspension setup and hence are suffering issues with heating up the tires. You can see how ALO after his last pitstop was kinda slow in first two laps andthen suddenly his speed was a lot faster.

When you say 0.2 second faster do you include Toro Rosso? Their pace was insane today.

[flmkane]

It's possible that there is an extremely fundamental reason for the lack of rear traction on the Mclaren, which in turn would explain the draggy set up.

Engine has changed, GEARBOX has probably changed significantly, suspension pickup points have changed too. And I'm not even going to SPECULATE on the possible changes to load paths, and how that might affect strain and deflection within the whole suspension+gearbox+engine+mounts assembly.

Whatever characteristics that rear suspension was SUPPOSED to have with the Honda engine have most certainly been compromised by the engine swap late in development.

[ivanlesk]

It's possible that there is an extremely fundamental reason for the lack of rear traction on the Mclaren, which in turn would explain the draggy set up.

Engine has changed, GEARBOX has probably changed significantly, suspension pickup points have changed too. And I'm not even going to SPECULATE on the possible changes to load paths, and how that might affect strain and deflection within the whole suspension+gearbox+engine+mounts assembly.

Whatever characteristics that rear suspension was SUPPOSED to have with the Honda engine have most certainly been compromised by the engine swap late in development.

Yep, and that's why this year is development year for them and we will see alot of ups and downs during season.

[adrianjordan]

Am I right in thinking that teams can change the gearbox housing and change rear suspension geometry as a result?

I'd like to think that Mclaren were smart enough to build in that sort of flexibility this season.

[fellowhoodlums]

Fundamentally out performed by Torro Rosso.....new engine, gearbox....no different from McLaren. (not a Honda gripe......just a fact that TR had to make the same changes from Renault to Honda).

But of course McLaren have all the excuses.

[Postmoe]

Looking at times during saturday and teamates relative competitiveness during sunday I get the impression that Bahrein 2018 was a very setup dependent GP. I would be in general very cautious when stating which is the pecking order, as the first two races seem to have been only lightly representative of everybody's potential.

It goes for Mclaren but for others too...

The only thing that seems certain is that the MCL 33 seems at least a pretty consistent race base, better on sundays than on saturdays. This is the kind of predictable car that suits Alonso the best.

I am very pleased by Vandoorne and by the strategy team. The belgian very early undercut was key, and it meant jumping ten positions or so easily. Stoffel was also good: while being just horrible at the start, he was cool enough to think about points and wasn't then stupidly aggressive. You can tell by the rational approach of the two Mclaren pilots that they very much struggled last year. They really know from where the come.

[toraabe]

Fundamentally out performed by Torro Rosso.....new engine, gearbox....no different from McLaren. (not a Honda gripe......just a fact that TR had to make the same changes from Renault to Honda).

But of course McLaren have all the excuses.

Don't forget that the Renault engine has a different gravity center, and probably heavier...

[johnny vee]

I know its not going to last long but Mclaren is 3rd in championship currently...
does anybody know when last Mclaren was 3rd in championship?

[Bisonas]

I guess we know for sure that the car atm has some issues on rear limited tracks with a stop and go nature.
I don't know if it will be fixed with the updates, but it is a trend that comes from last year also at some extend.
Especially regarding Bahrain.

China next week is a different kind of track so it will be easy to make comparisons. The front axle is a lot more crucial there than the rear. The track has a nice flow with with some really long corners at medium to high speeds.
Top speed its crucial there also ofc, with one of the longest straights,but it will not dictated your ultimate lap time.
You still need a good amount of downforce on this track in order to be fast.

We are gonna see how Mclaren will perform there. And if we suddenly see a turn around of performance, we can assume that the rear-limited track issues, and set-up problems, are kinda true.
At least for now, until they got a solution.
I am not too worried tbh about Mclaren.
i don't know why, but i am getting the feeling they will come on top of any issues they have and establish themselves as 4th best team very soon.

[redmaxver]

Fundamentally out performed by Torro Rosso...

Really?.. Take nothing away from Gasly, he's been on it all weekend. TR running brand new turbos and MGU-H for this weekend. One car nails it with a P4, the other comes last, again. Meanwhile McL play a good controlled race strategy to bring both home in the points and continue to look after the engines in a demanding circuit.

We'll wait for the engine penalties to rack up and come around.

[Fulcrum]

I know its not going to last long but Mclaren is 3rd in championship currently...
does anybody know when last Mclaren was 3rd in championship?

2012 if you mean year end, although they were leading after Round 1 of 2014.

[radosav]

stoffel made eleven overtakes with worse mclaren, in a race where they had traction problems and other difficulties. Not so bad if take it all into account.

[Big Tea]

stoffel made eleven overtakes with worse mclaren, in a race where they had traction problems and other difficulties. Not so bad if take it all into account.

We could be really bad and say not many others were behind 11 other cars though