More details about McLaren's technical leadership changes are becoming public as it has now become clear that Toro Rosso's highly valued technical director, James Key, is set to join McLaren in the same role.
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@PhillipM . i found the link i want you to read. its about eric b as usual boasting how small the renault radiatos are in comparison to H. and willl give mclaren an aero advantage.
And yet it says nothing about the airflow requirements, thickness, or the size of the oil coolers, intercoolers, etc, etc...
How looking at the wonderful tech threads on here which have dozens of photo's that show otherwise. Mclaren are running a basic cooling system to Renaults spec, nothing optimised or downsized for their own install and package, the have masses of expansion in the sidepods intakes compared to most to give them more pressure across the cores - and yet even with that the rads are still much thicker than, e/g, the RedBull install for the same power unit.
A rushed engine installation with oversized radiators/coolers and sidepods - plus things like no S-duct that they were running last year.
renault radiator are smaller to H as pointed above link by eric . so surely that will help aero wise. thats what eric is saying since he always in touch with his aero engineers. right. They have gone agressively withe the mclaren cooling , a very small air intake above and sidepods. so yes i cant see it look conservative at all. and you to understand mclaren renault top speed is slower both renault f1 and redbull on most occassions.
Last edited by techman on 25 Apr 2018, 13:31, edited 1 time in total.
...and as I said, if you actually look in the tech threads you'll see mclaren's sidepods are wider than the radiators to get more air through the core by generating more pressure for more cooling, they're also pretty thick radiators (he didn't say which dinension they were smaller in...), and the Renault intercoolers were always larger than the honda ones (I'd have to heck that this year, I've not see enough pictures to say that still holds, but it has been previously)
For someone with a handle like 'techman' you're not very up on actually looking at the technical side of things...
For someone with a handle like 'techman' you're not very up on actually looking at the technical side of things...
well mate, its not me who is making up the whether the renaults radiators are small or not. it eric himself is saying renault radiator are smaller than H and good for aero, there engineers know better than both of us. it pretty obvious mclaren went very agressively on cooling due to this. very small intake compared to TR for example.
i mentioned this Mclaren drag few times last year and i was told i was trolling. I wasnt trolling because everything thing i said about mclaren has now come true. They themselves saying there is drag. it good in a way that they are with renault there problems are getting hightlighted and there is no more hiding.
The intake size is a tiny part of the actual cooling drag, don't get fixated on that, you can see just from how wide the sidepods get that they have massive expansion behind them which lets you flow a lot of air through a small opening - and you're pushing a lot of air around the outside of those same sidepods.
Mclaren haven't gone aggressive on cooling at all, since you like quotes over actual technical analysis, here's some from Prodromo:
"The major challenge has been dealing with the architecture in a packaging sense internally"
"The cooling and radiator requirements are completely different"
One from Morris:
"We will rely on Renaults' recommendations for 2018 [for cooling, radiator and intecooler design], only with more experience does it make sense to develop something of our own"
Tim Goss on the size of the Renault package?
""We had to reconfigure the chassis, change the cooling system and reconfigure the gearbox just to make it fit,"
I mean, you can also go over to the Torro Rosso side where they were taling about the benefits the tighter rear end with the Honda engine allowed them, even though they'd opened it up initially...
When I see a Mclaren with the s-duct back, the sidepods tightened down and small/thin radiators and intercoolers like the Redbull and Renault cars, and it's still slow in a straight line, that's when they have an inherent aero philosophy drag problem. All they have at the minute is last-minute-packaging-problems.
I dont think they went conservative.. they even cooked the engine cover during testing.. they have small intakes and the top opening is the smallest in the grid.
the drag im not sure were its from to be honest but i know for a fact that they had clear drag issues since testing like i said before, reason why they started to prepare a new aeropack to fix this issues in mind since testing according to my friend over there...
I have not been told were the drag is coming from, but i wold guess a lot is front wing related ( my assumption from the talk i had ) . since a lot of work is focused there but lets see in Barcelona. ( and S-duct is not the fig fix by what i could understand from the conversation..)
i was however surprised they did not compromise wing level in China, so lets see if they do in Baku.
Baku looks to have a lot of slow corners with the biggest ´´straight´´ so maybe here they will rely more on mechanical grip and can do some compromise on wing level for the main straight. ( front and rear wing ) will be interesting to see what they do.
@PhillipM . i found the link i want you to read. its about eric b as usual boasting how small the renault radiatos are in comparison to H. and willl give mclaren an aero advantage.
and for mclaren to be slower than TR in bahrain with mclaren have better drivers must be an embarassment for mclaren.
There was a time, not too long ago you were complaining of people (Mclaren fans) coming over to the STR thread to hate and criticize, but now you're doing the same thing here. What's with all the talk of Mclaren being embarrassed? (but apparently only in Bahrain so far?) You've made your point about the famous draggy chassis over and over again, point taken, why now degenerate into talk about how Mclaren should feel embarrassed? How does STR feel about their drivers crashing into each other, while not even racing for points, while actually trying to swap places? Even for rookies, that was not a good look. You seem to be really upset about how the Honda split played out, even though it was way more civil than the Renault RBR drama of 2015. I don't know what you personally have against Eric, but maybe you should try and get his nbr and get it off your chest. You say he's boasting, Have you heard all the claims and boasting Marko and Franz have been doing? What do you expect a team boss to do or say?
You're obsessed with this Mclaren vs Honda/Toro Rosso
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously.
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.
mclaren had to deal with a different architecture and so was TR. its no different and remember TR is a smaller team and much less budget compared to mclarens. Let see this car mclaren are bringing in spain. i dont know what will happen to pecking order, we just have to wait and see.Another good point was raise by BrunoH. mclaren even cooked their engine cover due to overheating running very aggressiv cooling and i remember eric talking about heat pockets in the car in testing and they had to create holes in the cover
Lets see how that 'really aggressive cooling' Mclaren has on the Renault pans out shall we:
Oh, dear, whoops.
It's even larger than it was with the Honda in for an engine that should require less cooling - it should have been even smaller around the radiators than the Honda even for the same cooling level, instead it's even bigger! It's positively huge halfway down the sidepods, even the engine cover is bigger!
It's, almost like they might have gone conservative on the cooling and packaging to start with....strange that. Who would have thought.
Last edited by PhillipM on 25 Apr 2018, 14:41, edited 1 time in total.
Oh, dear, whoops.
It's even larger than it was with the Honda in for an engine that should require less cooling - it should have been even smaller around the radiators than the Honda even for the same cooling level, instead it's even bigger.
It's, almost like they might have gone conservative on the cooling and packaging to start with....strange that.
You should take up stand up comedy... at least part time
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously.
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.
mate you are funny. how can u compare the radiator size or aggressive cooling with pictures that were taken on from the top on different angles and heights. very funny mate. you made me laugh
mate you are funny. how can u compare the radiator size or aggressive cooling with pictures that were taken on from the top on different angles and heights. very funny mate. you made me laugh
Ah right, we should continue to compare cooling not by what's actually on the cars but by whatever a random journalist has put in his soundbites instead? Okay, makes perfect technical sense.
Ah right, we should continue to compare cooling not by what's actually on the cars but by whatever a random journalist has put in his soundbites instead? Okay, makes perfect technical sense.
Is Eric B a random journalist . He said it. But i have to agree with Groundeffect. You have a unintentional good sense of humour. i actually laughed at the pictures for a few seconds. that was hilarious.
You should take up stand up comedy... at least part time