2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

[gshevlin]

I visited several F1 fan websites yesterday evening to gauge spectator reaction to the incident. At all of the sites that i visited the verdict was clear: by a 2:1 margin, people were blaming Max Verstappen for the accident.
Results this season tell their own story. Max keeps hitting stuff on the circuit or hitting other drivers. This is not a debating point. The numbers don't lie.
I find the stewards exculpation of Verstappen's weaving to be bonkers. He was clearly moving all over the place as they approached the braking zone, and I'm not blind. I counted 2 moves, one in each direction.
It is at times like this, when I read that both Red Bull and the race stewards have essentially blamed both drivers, that I am reminded that many Formula 1 people live in a bubble. They seem to have little or no conception of how these kinds of incidents are viewed by non-pro racing spectators. It reminds me of the fan reaction to Ferrari's swapping of Rubens Barrichello and Michael Schumacher at Austria in 2002, when Ferrari and the FIA seemed totally surprised by the avalanche of criticism.

[Raleigh]

Riccardo, predictable for late braking dive bomb moves.
Verstappen, predictable for last minute movement under braking.

Riccardo, famous for pulling off amazing overtakes under braking without crashing into anyone.
Verstappen, infamous for dangerous weaving under braking and nearly causing accidents.

You could make the argument Ricciardo must have known what Max was probably going to do, but at a certain point letting another driver intimidate you is worse than risking a crash.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Riccardo, predictable for late braking dive bomb moves.
Verstappen, predictable for last minute movement under braking.

Riccardo, famous for pulling off amazing overtakes under braking without crashing into anyone.
Verstappen, infamous for dangerous weaving under braking and nearly causing accidents.

You could make the argument Ricciardo must have known what Max was probably going to do, but at a certain point letting another driver intimidate you is worse than risking a crash.

May be that is why Hamilton won last year and Vettel didn't. Obviously team would be very happy with Riccardo today, if you were to be the team principal.

Like I mentioned, Riccardo is legend in pulling dive bomb moves, only because the other driver plays safe. You know what happens when a driver doesn't.

[drivinhard]

He is still the same driver that performed flawlessly in 2016...

No he isn't.

Not because his ability is any different, but because the circumstances are. He isn't the young kid parachuted into Red Bull who subsequently wowed all by winning his first race. He's now a relative 'veteran' of F1. Fair or not, expectations have changed.

Yeah this is really the big elephant in the room in my opinion. He's done 64 races, that's a lot. This isn't a green rookie. HAM and VET would have both had WC's at 64 races, VET may have had two?

He's got a lot of speed and talent, but the issue is he's the common denominator in all these scuffs. Over and over again. You can argue any of them in a vacuum that they aren't his fault, but eventually he's going to lose the bigger picture "war" of perception that he is ultimately the cause. Like a friend told me, if you keep finding yourself in all these accidents, then it's your fault, even if it's not.

[digitalrurouni]

Verstappen to me is sort of a bit like Marc Marquez from MotoGP except without all that talent. Verstappen is talented no doubt but I think he only became famous and we think he's a once in a lifetime talent because he is so young and he is doing well compared to similar aged compatriots. I wonder if we are really overestimating him. I wonder if this year he's showing he's hit the limit.

[Wynters]

Article 20.3: More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off‐line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.

If I recall correctly, the regulation was changed to this due to an incident with Hamilton in 2010. He had just overtaken someone as they turned on to a straight (I think it was Petrov in Malaysia) and he tried to break the tow by changing his line down the straight. He was black-and-white flagged and the ruling was changed to be clearer in the aftermath.

[George-Jung]

Verstappen was already defending the inside line, Ricciardo just went for a gap that wasn’t there..

Also look at the onboards and the downshifts- no moving under braking.

Love you man. You're like Verstappen, better at attacking than defending.

Where do the words "under braking" appear in the regulation?

Article 20.3: More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off‐line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.

Have a look mate, there’s space.. completely in line with the rules.



Verstappen already driving on the left side of the track- covering the inside line, than he moves a bit to de middle and moves back to the left.. that is allowed.

[dans79]

Verstappen already driving on the left side of the track- covering the inside line, than he moves a bit to de middle and moves back to the left.. that is allowed.

Only seeing what you want to see as usual!

[George-Jung]

Verstappen already driving on the left side of the track- covering the inside line, than he moves a bit to de middle and moves back to the left.. that is allowed.

Only seeing what you want to see as usual!

Wow?!! The video is just there?!!
Please show me where I see things as I want them to see..

The whole back straight Max drove on the left.. so that was his racing line, he moves a bit to the middle and moves back to his racing line, which was the left side at the time.

How hard can it be?

[Dazed1]

One would assume the price for Red Bull to keep Ricciardo just went up while the likelihood of same just went down. I can no longer cheer for Verstappen.

I would argue the opposite. I can't imagine how crashing into your teammate enhances market value, no matter the circumstances.

Regardless of VES defending, this was an ambitious move with plenty of opportunity for tears. And even if succesfull it would have yielded nothing for the team.

I think most sensible drivers would have passed on this opportunity and not even attempted to go for a divebomb.

Most sensible drivers would have recognized their team mate had the faster car and would not have continually blocked their pass. Most sensible drivers would not have moved twice in the braking zone. Most sensible drivers would have let RIC dive in hopes he did a VET overcook. Verstappen has not done and abundance of sensible things this season. I think his ego is starved for attention. He and Perez would make one hell of a team.

[Dazed1]

All I have to say about that race is. I dont blame Seb for trying, some of you armchair experts dont really have a clue what f1 is all about. It is about racing, passing, taking risk, not hanging back and not trying. Yes it didnt work, but next time it might. Bring on Barca.

https://postimages.org/

I swear that stupid Senna quote is the Godwin's Law of F1 internet forums.

Hitler could not put it better.

[George-Jung]

Most sensible drivers bla bla..

Kimi passed Vettel in Baku in the end.

People seem to forget you first race against your teammate and than the rest;

when Rosberg and Hamilton battled each other hard in Bahrain everybody loved it- but was it ‘sensible’?

Let me tell you all this; Verstappen is going nowhere, because otherwise Mercedes or Ferrari will sign him in a heartbeat.

Last but not least, here the link to the incident and please show me the multiple moves Max made, that aren’t allowed?



Max drove the entire back straight on the left side, so that was his racing line- he once moved a bit to the middle and than moved back to the left which was he racing line to begin with.

There was even space left between Max and the wall, but Ricciardo didn’t not go there to avoid a crash- he couldn’t anymore- because he misjudged the situation.

[George-Jung]

All I have to say about that race is. I dont blame Seb for trying, some of you armchair experts dont really have a clue what f1 is all about. It is about racing, passing, taking risk, not hanging back and not trying. Yes it didnt work, but next time it might. Bring on Barca.

https://postimages.org/

I swear that stupid Senna quote is the Godwin's Law of F1 internet forums.

Hitler could not put it better.

It wasn’t just ‘a quote’ it was his whole mindset and driverlife-philosophy..

[NathanOlder]

Verstappen already driving on the left side of the track- covering the inside line, than he moves a bit to de middle and moves back to the left.. that is allowed.

Only seeing what you want to see as usual!

Wow?!! The video is just there?!!
Please show me where I see things as I want them to see..

The whole back straight Max drove on the left.. so that was his racing line, he moves a bit to the middle and moves back to his racing line, which was the left side at the time.

How hard can it be?

The left hand side from about the start line onwards is NOT the racing line.

[George-Jung]

Only seeing what you want to see as usual!

Wow?!! The video is just there?!!
Please show me where I see things as I want them to see..

The whole back straight Max drove on the left.. so that was his racing line, he moves a bit to the middle and moves back to his racing line, which was the left side at the time.

How hard can it be?

The left hand side from about the start line onwards is NOT the racing line.

It was Verstappen’s racing line at that moment- otherwise we can argue all night long that Verstappen never even moved from or towards the normal racing line/ right side of the track.