2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

[Andres125sx]

Daniel has to take some responsibility for damaging his championship run. We all know Max is a mad man, therefore daniel should not have tried that risky move where it takes two to tango.
His overtakes are breathtaking, but most of the time he shoves the car up the inside and leaves it to the other driver to crash or let him through.
He cannot use that approach in a championship battle, he has to be in full control of his destiny, so i hope he is more careful going forward. Max is Max, so i don't expect better from him. Daniel now needs to leave the childish tidly-winks racing behind and focus and take things a little more seriously.

So when a driver is reckless, and close the door against the rules causing a crash..... it´s the other driver responsability because he let the reckless driver to do reckless things, wich basically means no driver should try to pass Max because Max will crash with him and it will be his responsability...


As they said at the spanish tv, Ricciardo was a gentlemen, left the necessary space at all his attempts, slowed down when necessary, and did everything to avoid a crash


You can´t insinuate his rivals should try to avoid risky situation with him, this is racing, any overtake is a risky situation, so the only way to avoid risky situation would be not trying an overtake, wich basically is Max target so if you agree with that, Max won and he´s free to do whatever he wants to stop his rivals, within the rules or not. Utter nosense

[jz11]

you also don't seem to use common sense, because, based on what you wrote in the other topic, you clearly don't understand the nature of "1 defensive move" rule and situations it was made to prevent, situations just like the one discussed here

Can you quote on that please, because it was one move under braking which is ok, and one move before that corner, which is also ok. In europe you are alowed to block on the straight, sorry that doesn't work for you.

do you need an explanation as to why RICs fronts immediately locked up when VER moved in front of him right where the braking would begin for RIC?
VER had options there, RIC, when he made the dummy and went left - had none, VER chose to do that move, which again - led to 0 points for the team, if you will still continue to defend him, then there is nothing more I can explain to you or George here, it would be like an atheist explaining natural selection to a religious priest - there simply is no common ground to make an argument, so the discussion is pointless

[dans79]

I’m sorry, but if there is a car coming fast from behind with a large speed differential, there’s only so much you can expect from him when moving directly into his path in a blocking manner. Simply putting the responsibility at the car behind for not braking is a weak argument if you did your move at the very last moment.

Not to mention that Dan did break. As Max comes back left you will see Dan's right front lock up a good 1.5 meters before impact. When Max started coming back, he took all the DF of Dan's front wing and thus his ability to brake. As soon as that happened Dan was a passenger.

[TwanV]

well.. you may call it a religious discussion but how is RIC's commitment to that move different from a divebomb? VES isn't all over the track like you make us believe, RIC is confused by Max' response on his own dummy. take a good luck again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p5AFws ... r_embedded

[jz11]

I'm not discussing this any more, everything has been said already

[CriXus]

well.. you may call it a religious discussion but how is RIC's commitment to that move different from a divebomb? VES isn't all over the track like you make us believe, RIC is confused by Max' response on his own dummy. take a good luck again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p5AFws ... r_embedded

Verstappen has no right of that last move to the left. It's against the rules.

[Manoah2u]

Apart from the VER-RIC incident,

there's some talk too about MAG-GAS.
i find that greatly , greatly, GREATLY exegerated too. Matter of fact, i think MAG didn't even deserve a penalty for that, but whatever.

Gasly is screaming blood and murder and how supposedly kevin 'pushed' him into the wall with 300kph and his front wheels left the ground, his mirror broke and his floor damaged and he had to 'limp' home LOL!!!!

i just watched the footage and gasly is really full of it and a drama queen.

his mirror never broke, his wheels never left the floor he only had some suspension lift, and bumped around a bit, nothing more nothing less. he just feels sour he couldn't pass kevin.
if you look at the footage without prejudice, kevin is simply minding his own business, looking in his right hand mirror to see where gasly is, and following his own line. he wan't pureposefully going to the left at all, you can clearly see the contact actually took him by surprise. gasly went for an overtaking spot that wasn't there, he should have went to the inside, which is why kevin was looking there as that was the only logical place to go.

after the contact gasly is coming back at him, and kevin does move somewhat to the left to block him off, big deal. he wasn't alongside him at all at that point. he then goes on the outside and outbrakes himself causing a flatspot which ruined his own race - he did that all to himself.

yes, kevin is known to be quite fierce, let him be. i've seen occasions that were doubtful but there was nothing worth mentioning here.

if i can see there freeway is narrowing down from 4 lanes to 3 lanes and i'm on the outer lane, BEHIND a car in front of me on the lane on the right that is simply minding his own business, i'm the one who needs to lift. instead, gasly put some more pedal to the metal and brainless puts it alongside whilst the room ends and contact is inevitable. who's the blame here? the driver minding his own business or the idiot that pushes his car in the wrong place? that's exactly what gasly did here, total nonsense. it's not like he was alongside him, putting his light out, and kevin then decided to steer into the left and push him in the wall a-la Schumacher @mercedes move on Barrichello a few years ago.

worst of it all is that the FIA actually handed him out a penalty. completely bonkers.

[George-Jung]

I’m sorry, but if there is a car coming fast from behind with a large speed differential, there’s only so much you can expect from him when moving directly into his path in a blocking manner. Simply putting the responsibility at the car behind for not braking is a weak argument if you did your move at the very last moment.

Not to mention that Dan did break. As Max comes back left you will see Dan's right front lock up a good 1.5 meters before impact. When Max started coming back, he took all the DF of Dan's front wing and thus his ability to brake. As soon as that happened Dan was a passenger.

Ricciardo starts to lock up because he starts to try to avoid a collision by steering to the right, have a look at his onboard.

[Phil]

keep it together mate.. remember RIC crashed into VES not the other way. when you are speeding at 340 kph with a +35 kph difference to the guy in front of you, your first priority is to make sure to not hit him in the back.

That argument sounds like believing it to be smart move to step 200m in front of a 150 tonne moving train and believing it will be able to stop in time and not kill you. The same applies to this scenario here: If you are Max Verstappen and you know your team-mate is closing in quickly with a 35kph (your estimate) speed difference, how late do you think you can move directly into his path without risking him becoming a passenger in his own car and crashing into you? And while you are at it, take into consideration how long it takes a driver typically to react and how much braking force that car still has when moving directly into your wake.

Dan obviously didn't want to crash - he wanted to overtake. He first moved right and then Max moved right too. So with that speed differential in mind and believing Max had committed to that part of the track, he aims for the inside because that's where a big gap just opened. But then Max moves again, but this time to the left and closes that gap too. What you think happens and what do you expect Dan to do about it?

There's a reason only one defensive move is allowed, and it's certainly not to allow a driver using his own car as an obstacle to block another driver. It's there to force a driver to commit to either protecting the inside or the outside going into a corner.

[Andres125sx]

Clearly another typical dive bomb action from Ricciardo, that this time went wrong..

Interesting to see how far people go to blame everything on Verstappen.

Not as interesting as seeing how far people is goig to defend Verstappen even after ruining his whole team GP

Yours, or this one, are pretty good examples

Your allowed to move while defending (but not braking) as much as you like as there is no rule. Verstappen didn't move while braking so he didn't break the rule.

It was crystal clear. Verstappen was closing the door at the inside, so Ricciardo went to the outside, but Max moved to the right to close the ouside gap, then Ricciardo changed direction to go to the inside, and Max changed direction again under braking closing the gap and causing an accident.

It was easy to see even live, but once you look at Ricciardo onboard it is not possible to defend Max by any means

Verstappen was already defending the inside line, Ricciardo just went for a gap that wasn’t there..

Well, I saw it and didn´t take any hallucinogen . Initially there was a gap at the outside (Max was closing the door at the inside) but then Max went to the outside so Ricciardo moved to the inside. At that point there wasn´t a gap, but two. Max was more or less centered on the track, and Daniel could have gone both at the inside or outside, there was a gap at both sides, there´s more than enough room for three cars

I seriously recommend you to watch Ricciardo onboard again.

[George-Jung]

you also don't seem to use common sense, because, based on what you wrote in the other topic, you clearly don't understand the nature of "1 defensive move" rule and situations it was made to prevent, situations just like the one discussed here

No sorry, you clearly don’t understand it.

You are allowed to *go back.. and you can’t go back without moving.

[zeph]

I don't think RIC was entirely blameless in this particular incident (the move reeked of desperation and it wasn't going to stick even if VES hadn't veered back left), but you only need to look at VES' entire career to know there are things he needs to change. Plain and simple, he is a liability on track.

RBR are doing him (and themselves) a disservice by mollycoddling him.

[Phil]

I'd call Max's move just as desperate considering the number of times Dan tried to pass (and was very gentlemanly-like about it). Either way, when doing far beyond 300kph on a straight, jinxing left and right can have serious consequences, especially for a car closing in quickly from behind. Perhaps the error of judgement was that Dan believed Max would stay right, but it was a split second thing. If anything, I blame Max for jinxing right and not staying there, when in reality, he was always going to be defending the inside, being the smart racer he is.

A key thing is predicting and reading what the driver in front of you is doing. A driver who is predictable is easy to read. Max was just being erratic in his movement. He was in the middle of the track with either option to go left or right and then he jinxed in both directions in a very short time leaving Dan little option on how to avoid a collision.

[George-Jung]

Not as interesting as seeing how far people is goig to defend Verstappen even after ruining his whole team GP

Yours, or this one, are pretty good examples




It was crystal clear. Verstappen was closing the door at the inside, so Ricciardo went to the outside, but Max moved to the right to close the ouside gap, then Ricciardo changed direction to go to the inside, and Max changed direction again under braking closing the gap and causing an accident.

It was easy to see even live, but once you look at Ricciardo onboard it is not possible to defend Max by any means

Verstappen was already defending the inside line, Ricciardo just went for a gap that wasn’t there..

Well, I saw it and didn´t take any hallucinogen . Initially there was a gap at the outside (Max was closing the door at the inside) but then Max went to the outside so Ricciardo moved to the inside. At that point there wasn´t a gap, but two. Max was more or less centered on the track, and Daniel could have gone both at the inside or outside, there was a gap at both sides, there´s more than enough room for three cars

I seriously recommend you to watch Ricciardo onboard again.

I have looked it over several of times;

1. Ricciardo was never beside Verstappen.

2. Ricciardo drove in the back of Verstappen.

The gap Ricciardo was trying to create was never there, because he was in no way ever going to make that.

Verstappen ‘made it perfectly clear’ that the inside line was never going to be Ricciardo’s- due to the fact that Verstappen drove on the left the entire straight prior to the incident.

[TwanV]

well.. you may call it a religious discussion but how is RIC's commitment to that move different from a divebomb? VES isn't all over the track like you make us believe, RIC is confused by Max' response on his own dummy. take a good luck again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p5AFws ... r_embedded

Verstappen has no right of that last move to the left. It's against the rules.

Please guys, I'm not arguing about how unnecessarily aggressive that move/overtake was, but everybody is so quick to point out that this is illegal while in fact it isn't. Paragraph 27.5 is now forfeit from the sporting regulations. If anyone can give me black on white that blocking with more than one move is not allowed I would be grateful.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... 17-884973/

EDIT: if it even is blocking.. which I'm not sure about.

EDIT 2: Like I said, stewards judged it perfectly, both got reprimanded.