2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 27-29

[Andres125sx]

Think about what you are suggesting here. A car being allowed to move directly into the path of a car moving 20-30kmh faster? Yes, of course, that is good racing etiquette right there.

I hope you're not saying you need to be a Gentleman on track?
Because there is no such thing; you have two kind of racers:

1. Winners
2. Losers

Thats just about it imho.

So Max is a loser, since he didn´t finish the race, he´s below his team mate (and also below one Renault, and below one Mclaren-Renault), and he was beaten by his team mate past season too, right?


I don´t think so, but if you want to simplify racing to this absurd, then this is the logical conclusion

[Restomaniac]

Think about what you are suggesting here. A car being allowed to move directly into the path of a car moving 20-30kmh faster? Yes, of course, that is good racing etiquette right there.

I hope you're not saying you need to be a Gentleman on track?
Because there is no such thing; you have two kind of racers:

1. Winners
2. Losers

Thats just about it imho.

3. Crashers

Ah how I miss Crashtor

[zac510]

The defence in here is like Max on track, swerving all over the place

I think it's time to close the argument, there's nothing new.

[NathanOlder]

Think about what you are suggesting here. A car being allowed to move directly into the path of a car moving 20-30kmh faster? Yes, of course, that is good racing etiquette right there.

I hope you're not saying you need to be a Gentleman on track?
Because there is no such thing; you have two kind of racers:

1. Winners
2. Losers

Thats just about it imho.

He's not saying drivers need to be gentlemen on track. I think the word Phil is describing is Respect and so far max has shown none to anyone.

[iotar__]

FIA cherry picking penalties based on driver's name and his backers:
- Sirotkin got one, fine, just about deserved, although they ignored those in the past (Massa, USA '15?) and it was more of a "first lap incident", the excuse they used for:
- Ocon. He didn't get anything for turning into Raikkonen and one-sidedly causing collision. He should get another one for lying about it. I guarantee you that they are trained to do that when they know they messed up (Verstappen, Gasly and now Ocon).

- Verstappen got a joke reprimand for the worst incident of the three. Observe the usual damage limitation for marketing chosen ones - drag someone else (Ricciardo with close to zero fault) and FIA working in perfect harmony.

- Meanwhile genius engineer Brawn pretends that he CAN'T COUNT TO TWO . Hey Ross: Verstappen jr goes one side to block, goes the other to block = 2 and is causing a collision. I hope that helped.

[ArcticWolfie]

Just for the sake of understanding...

Verstappen's 2016 and 2017 season were not that bad. Yes he made some mistakes and sometimes his racing was aggressive (Spa 2016, Japan 2016, Hungary 2016, Canada 2017, Hungary 2017) but nothing too /mad/ in my opinion.
Last year his season started like crap (mostly due to a crap car and engine), but he ended the season very good with some nice showing off his skills.
So I wonder what changed during the winter. Did the pressure get to him? or the arrogance? or the has the team changed? I don't get the teamradios in the previous races either... like the one in Australia when he got behind Magnussen "We don't have time for this Max" or in the previous race towards Ricciardo "we can overtake him again!" (or smth).

[Phil]

You know what? Love Max for the entertainment he is bringing us. If this incident didn't happen, this topic would have surely died 30 pages ago. I may think his defense was punishable and responsible for the crash for the most part, but I sure as hell enjoy the thrill he continues to bring to the sport. That, and Vettel too, for trying a little too hard into T1 at the restart and for going all bat --- crazy last year and committing road rage. It's what makes this sport entertaining and why we continue to watch it.

It's why surely many love Max. He crashed in 3 of the 4 races, yet the kid is continuing to give it all he's got, fearless and continuing to drive at the absolute limit. Applaud him for it, he certainly has my respect for it. And I sincerely hope he continues.

[jz11]

Just for the sake of understanding...

Verstappen's 2016 and 2017 season were not that bad. Yes he made some mistakes and sometimes his racing was aggressive (Spa 2016, Japan 2016, Hungary 2016, Canada 2017, Hungary 2017) but nothing too /mad/ in my opinion.
Last year his season started like crap (mostly due to a crap car and engine), but he ended the season very good with some nice showing off his skills.
So I wonder what changed during the winter. Did the pressure get to him? or the arrogance? or the has the team changed? I don't get the teamradios in the previous races either... like the one in Australia when he got behind Magnussen "We don't have time for this Max" or in the previous race towards Ricciardo "we can overtake him again!" (or smth).

Max looked better than what he really was at the end of last year because he was battling Vettel and Hamilton, both of whom were much more concerned with the championship result than tangling with Max, and at the same time Dan had a string of technical problems (apart from Max crashing Dan out at least once)

He drove that one race really well, and defended quite well also against Vettel and Hamilton, but that was on different tracks and even then his weaving and waiting for the overtaker to committing and THEN making his defensive move led to an illusion that he is better than he is, and this season shows his true colors, if I had to sum up his defense - he is baiting the over taker to supposedly open door, and when the guy is committing - he slams it shut, so you basically don't know what to expect from him, and it works so well only because the sport is so safe these days, if it was 20 years ago, he would learn his lesson much faster with the help of other drivers behind a garage somewhere, out of the way of cameras.

And I can't agree with Phil at all about respecting him for bringing the show, I think he ruined quite a few races so far (including last years championship title, afair his actions led to Vettel losing quite a lot of points), he brings action, but ruins races as a whole, that's what I think of him, the talent is there, but if will not get his ego in check, it will go down the drain.

[flmkane]

You know what? Love Max for the entertainment he is bringing us. If this incident didn't happen, this topic would have surely died 30 pages ago. I may think his defense was punishable and responsible for the crash for the most part, but I sure as hell enjoy the thrill he continues to bring to the sport. That, and Vettel too, for trying a little too hard into T1 at the restart and for going all bat --- crazy last year and committing road rage. It's what makes this sport entertaining and why we continue to watch it.

It's why surely many love Max. He crashed in 3 of the 4 races, yet the kid is continuing to give it all he's got, fearless and continuing to drive at the absolute limit. Applaud him for it, he certainly has my respect for it. And I sincerely hope he continues.

It appears that every single reason you give for liking Max is the exact same reasons I have for disliking him. Wish there were someone like Senna, Schumacher or even James Hunt who'd have a punch up with him, because obviously he needs to be cowed rather than simply beaten on track.

Back when Hamilton behaved like this in 2011, people criticized him in the same manner.

[George-Jung]

Back when Hamilton behaved like this in 2011, people criticized him in the same manner.

And look how that turned out..

Verstappen needs to balance out his aggressiveness, some actions you only do at the start, some in the last lap or 2.. and some during the race.

Once he has mastered that skill, he’s gone..

[foxmulder_ms]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtV1no8EnoY

I just watched this. As much as I like Kevin, he was being a total d1ck on both occasions. The penalty he received as a result was deserved.

Nothing to like about him. One of the worst offenders. Not the 1st.

[falonso81]

Back when Hamilton behaved like this in 2011, people criticized him in the same manner.

And look how that turned out..

Well, lets see. He got his 1st title gifted to him by Ferrari. His other 3 titles gifted to him by a dominant car. He even lost 1 title to Rosberg. Oh pls, half the grid would have 4 titles if they drove the cars Hamilton had.

[NathanOlder]

Back when Hamilton behaved like this in 2011, people criticized him in the same manner.

And look how that turned out..

Well, lets see. He got his 1st title gifted to him by Ferrari. His other 3 titles gifted to him by a dominant car. He even lost 1 title to Rosberg. Oh pls, half the grid would have 4 titles if they drove the cars Hamilton had.

joking right ? haters gotta hate. You are sooooo wrong.

half the field would have 4 titles if they drove the cars Alonso had (this IS a joke, but its at the same level as your joke)

[Jolle]

And look how that turned out..

Well, lets see. He got his 1st title gifted to him by Ferrari. His other 3 titles gifted to him by a dominant car. He even lost 1 title to Rosberg. Oh pls, half the grid would have 4 titles if they drove the cars Hamilton had.

joking right ? haters gotta hate. You are sooooo wrong.

half the field would have 4 titles if they drove the cars Alonso had (this IS a joke, but its at the same level as your joke)

then the same would apply for anybody who drove for McLaren during the 80is, like Lauda, Prost, Senna.... or Williams in the 90ies, Ferrari in the 2000's....

One of things that makes a good driver into a great driver, is being in the right car at the right time.

[George-Jung]

One of things that makes a good driver into a great driver, is being in the right car at the right time.

Agree.. you have to see the bigger picture as a driver as well.

Hamilton saw the potential of Mercedes or at least was convinced enough by Brawn to make a switch, while everybody else said he was crazy.

Still remember Button saying he wouldn’t have made that move if he were Hamilton*1- and we all know how Button*2 ended..

1. Winner
2. Loser