Canadian GP 2008

[Chaparral]

Kubica was already passing by Ferrari's garage at a steady speed and Kimi chose to go out and put his car side by side with Kubica.
Why isn't he penalized for doing that? He sure was trying to gain an additional position, but you shouldn't be able to do that in the pits.

My question is very simple "Is it legal to drive on the right side of the street in the pits?"
Kimi was clearly on the left side of the blue strip that divides the garage zone and the street zone.

Thank you

There is no rule that you cannot race in the pit lane. Speed is limited but you can race and overtake other cars left or right as you like.

You can even pass the checkered flag in the pit lane and it counts for the lap as Schumacher and Ferrari demonstrated in Silverstone. you can do everything that isn't explicitly forbidden.

the garage lane is another issue. there are restrictions what you can do but I don't remember the details.

Total bollocks

[Chaparral]

Word out of Montreal - Renault is to drastically reduce the size of operations at its Viry Chatillon F1 engine facility - downsizing by 50% of its operation. Pat Symonds explains it as a result of the engine freeze regulations and downturn in the global economy. This news is in contrast to CEO Ghosn who stated they (Renault) were in it for the long haul. Renault will continue to outsource much of its engine building but one should remember that with KERS coming into play next year that could put them at a distinct disadvantage - or will it be another Mecachrome situation - if I were Red Bull Racing Id be concerned at those statements.

[bizadfar]

Lewis is going to have to take the blame for a silly mistake...he'll move on but a more humble "I cocked up" interview would have been better received.

I though McLaren had judged the pit lane situation well...they put more fuel in Lewis - fueled him to the END...because they didn't want him to waste time waiting at the end of the pitlane...without the 2 cars parked he'd have been able to just slow and then sail through the lights...brimmed full and able to take an easy win.

But at the critical moment and in the midst of a hectic pitlane he forgot to check the light, what a newbie mistake...probably looking at his telemetry...

Really silly mistake, one you should just hold your hands up to. It was nothing like Kimi's crash in Monaco.

I don't agree with the 10 place penalties for him and Rosberg. I think it's too harsh. 5 places maximum, if you must...though I wouldn't have penalised Nico - he was following Lewis who by hitting Kimi pulled up in a much shorter distance (suddenly)...Nico only tapped Lewis and I think it's a bit harsh.

What a mess...

But congrats to Kubica, he's at least won a GP now...and the WDC is definately going to be interesting this year.

I don't think hamilton was topped up with the other tyre compound and 50laps to do... that would be probably slower and a possible disaster. The more fuel you got onboard, the harder it is to stop -> more pressure on braking system and that would be an additional risk.

Rosberg actually was about to sail through the green lights I think? But nowhere to go.
I also agree about the 5 place penalty max. But they are desperate to enforce it stronger, it's happened 2/3 years in a row (running red lights under these SC rules)

[sebbe]

You can even pass the checkered flag in the pit lane and it counts for the lap as Schumacher and Ferrari demonstrated in Silverstone. you can do everything that isn't explicitly forbidden.

Not anymore since Schumacher-Brown did that move in Silverstone some years ago.

I think that if the pits were open during SC none of this would have happened, and there would not be any of those stupid situation in which a driver has to wait for the red light go off for going out of the pits.

Going back to my original question, is it allowed to drive on the left side of the blue strip in boxes?

[WhiteBlue]

Kubica was already passing by Ferrari's garage at a steady speed and Kimi chose to go out and put his car side by side with Kubica.
Why isn't he penalized for doing that? He sure was trying to gain an additional position, but you shouldn't be able to do that in the pits.

My question is very simple "Is it legal to drive on the right side of the street in the pits?"
Kimi was clearly on the left side of the blue strip that divides the garage zone and the street zone.

Thank you

There is no rule that you cannot race in the pit lane. Speed is limited but you can race and overtake other cars left or right as you like.

You can even pass the checkered flag in the pit lane and it counts for the lap as Schumacher and Ferrari demonstrated in Silverstone. you can do everything that isn't explicitly forbidden.

the garage lane is another issue. there are restrictions what you can do but I don't remember the details.

Total bollocks

I was just looking up the 2008 sporting rules and editing the bit about the slow lane for further information when Chaparral posted his complimentory comment. Here we go:

23) PIT LANE
23.1 a) For the avoidance of doubt and for description purposes, the pit lane shall be divided into two lanes.
The lane closest to the pit wall is designated the "fast lane", and the lane closest to the garages is
designated the "inner lane". Other than when cars are at the end of the pit lane under Articles 38.3
and 41.5, the inner lane is the only area where any work can be carried out on a car.
b) The FIA will designate an area in the pit lane where each team may work and one place where pit
stops during both practice and the race may be carried out.
c) Unless a car is pushed from the grid at any time during the start procedure, cars may only be driven
from the team’s designated garage area to the end of the pit lane.
d) Any driver intending to start the race from the pit lane may not drive his car from his team’s
designated garage area until the 15 minute signal has been given and must stop in a line in the fast
lane.
Under these circumstances working in the fast lane will be permitted but any such work is restricted
to :
- starting the engine and any directly associated preparation ;
- the fitting or removal of permitted cooling and heating devices ;
- changing wheels.
2008 F1 Sporting Regulations 10 of 43 19th May 2008
When cars are permitted to leave the pit lane they must do so in the order they arrived at the end of
the pit lane unless another car is unduly delayed. At all times drivers must follow the directions of the
marshals.
e) Other than drying, sweeping or any tyre rubber left when cars leave their pit stop position,
competitors may not attempt to enhance the grip of the surface in the pit lane unless a problem has
been clearly identified and a solution agreed to by the FIA safety delegate.
f) Competitors must not paint lines on any part of the pit lane.
g) Other than under d) above no equipment may be left in the fast lane.
h) Team personnel are only allowed in the pit lane immediately before they are required to work on a
car and must withdraw as soon as the work is complete.
i) It is the responsibility of the competitor to release his car after a pit stop only when it is safe to do so.

I can't find anything that disallows passing in the pit lane. so I guess the man is wrong.

[Conceptual]

I think that they probably looked at assessing the "running the red light" penalty, but found that black flagging a car that was out of the race was kind of rediculous, so they penalized him in the next race.

If Lewis gets pole in Q3, but gets regulated to 11th, does that mean that he can change fuel load before the start of the race?

If not, this may turn out to be a HUGE double whammy, since the trick to the 11th starting position is to 1 stop and leapfrog the 2-3 stoppers. If he is in 11th, but required to start on his declared fuel load, then he most likely NOT podium, since 12-16 will probably be 1 stopping.

Is it better for him to NOT make it past Q2, and then just start from the pitlane? It worked very well for Vettel, and might be the best way to ensure a high points finish.

Thoughts?

Chris

[JiMbO]

why would it be better to start from the pit lane??? doesnt he have to wait until all the cars pass until he can leave which means he will be last...and if he's fulled for a one stopper he wouldnt be super fast which would make it harder for him to overtake

and if he was stuck behind someone like coultard.....

[Ray]

I don't agree with the 10 place penalties for him and Rosberg. I think it's too harsh. 5 places maximum, if you must...though I wouldn't have penalised Nico - he was following Lewis who by hitting Kimi pulled up in a much shorter distance (suddenly)...Nico only tapped Lewis and I think it's a bit harsh.

Taking an opponent, especially your title rival, out of a race for a bonehead stupid mistake is completely justifiable with a 10 place penalty. Nico didn't cause Lewis to retire, but he did back up in the pitlane. Which is a no no in the regs, you cannot reverse in the pits. Is ten spots too harsh for that? I don't know, so far I've not seen a set penalty for any infraction, just what they decide.

Also, did anyone notice in the Spanish GP after DC and Glockhit one another, a the left rear tire changer had no helmet on? Is that no a breach of some rule?

[axle]

I don't think hamilton was topped up with the other tyre compound and 50laps to do... that would be probably slower and a possible disaster. The more fuel you got onboard, the harder it is to stop -> more pressure on braking system and that would be an additional risk.

Rosberg actually was about to sail through the green lights I think? But nowhere to go.
I also agree about the 5 place penalty max. But they are desperate to enforce it stronger, it's happened 2/3 years in a row (running red lights under these SC rules)

Yep you are correct - 1 report said he was and I've just read the Martin Whitmarsh Q&A which says he was just fueled longer...I've edited my post to reflect that.

Is it running a red light or crashing that's gotten them in trouble? As AFAIK neither Nico nor Lewis crossed the line...

[Chaparral]

WB, forget the rule book which even I can google up (as you so often do) and yes if you're lucky enough to have your team get you out ahead of the rest fantastic its the same in most major formulae these days - my question would be on the pit stop scenario are the cars allowed to line up abreast as was the case or astern as in most formulae - if its astern then KImi has a problem - mind you Lewis was a twit not to see the flashing red light (as was Rosberg).

[WhiteBlue]

... Renault will continue to outsource much of its engine building but one should remember that with KERS coming into play next year that could put them at a distinct disadvantage...

the full text of the interview explains that KERS are not developed in France by the engine facility but in Enstone with the chassis. Pat also expected Renault to scale the engine development up again when it is needed for a new formula probably in 2013. for the time being they are just adapting capacity to the needs. they probably spend more money for more people in Enstone.

[Chaparral]

... Renault will continue to outsource much of its engine building but one should remember that with KERS coming into play next year that could put them at a distinct disadvantage...

the full text of the interview explains that KERS are not developed in France by the engine facility but in Enstone with the chassis. Pat also expected Renault to scale the engine development up again when it is needed for a new formula probably in 2013. for the time being they are just adapting capacity to the needs. they probably spend more money for more people in Enstone.

What interview - mine was a verbal conversation

[JamesS]

A good strategy for Lewis could be to run light, secure Pole, be relegated to P11, as he's light he should be able to make up 2 or 3 (perhaps more) positions from start alone and then push very very hard in the opening laps to push into the top 4 or 5, once he's in that position he can continue with a normal two stop strategy. A podium would be a monumental challenge, but ultimately he will be vindicated as a driver if he achieves it (jeez, how many times do F1 drivers need to prove themselves before critics accept the driver!).

Either way, I suspect, barring a mechanical failure to both Ferraris, Lewis will be 3rd or 4th in the standings after the French GP, but the margin will again be tiny, with perhaps 2 or 3 points between him and the top spot.

How good is the French GP deemed to be for overtaking?

[Rob W]

....Fair point...BUT...

1. Kimi ploughed into the back of Sutil at Monaco when there was no overtaking manouvre
2. In a race which should have been all about damage limitation for him by that point.
3. whilst pushing (too) hard on the FIRST LAP after a safety car period (stupid mistake IMHO)
4. And more so because he wasn't exactly under huge pressure from behind forcing him to pish so hard.

I agree with you on these points. I'm sure every driver/team can differentiate their mistakes and criticise others. In the end keeping your own car away from hard objects, be they walls or other cars, is a paramount task of motorsport.

Maybe it's just something about being the number one driver at Ferrari which leads to you thinking reality doesn't apply to you.

R

[WhiteBlue]

In Canada Kimi could have risked a penalty for overtaking under yellow if he had passed Kubica at the green light. the safety car was still out when the light went green. so overtaking was illegal on the whole track and that should also be true for the pit lane. So while passing in the pitlane is ok most of the time it should not be done under yellow.

I reckon that both Hamilton and Nico fell under the rule of dangerous driving in the pitlane during safety car. that is reeported to the stewards and usually carries a penalty. I do not see that Nico's penalty should be any different from Hamilton's. He did the same thing. I suspect those guys keep forgetting that the light goes red when the safety car passes. That penalty will help them not to forget it again.