750kg of downforce on the front wing alone?

[mariof1]

This is what an engineer from the Spyker team claims at 3:30 aprox:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TJZ7agPHbzs& ... xt_from=QL

"Three quarters of a ton", when travelling at top speed in Barcelona. I was surprised to hear such a high number. It means total downforce would be around 3 tons for a current spec car (and not the best one...)

Anyway I'd expect such a load for the rear wing. I'm confused now.

Any comments?

[Scotracer]

Well a 2004 car would be about 3200kg downforce at 200mph so a 2007 car should be a fair bit less (especially a Spyker). Well, saying that a front wing isn't dependant on the components in front of it so maybe it is comparable to the other cars on the grid. I'm just waffling now...erm, it seems possible but I would have a 2007 car would have a bit less downforce than that.

[Ogami musashi]

Yes that's it..in straight line current cars are about 2700kg of downforce in high downforce trim.

2004 cars were more than 3000kg.

The numbers vary a lot in corners and according to the tracks of course.

[WhiteBlue]

so what is the OWG targeting for? the FIA proposed 1.2 tons metric initially. if that is implemented it would cut downforce to less than 50% of current maximum.

[Scotracer]

so what is the OWG targeting for? the FIA proposed 1.2 tons metric initially. if that is implemented it would cut downforce to less than 50% of current maximum.

I think discussion of the 2009 regulations is sort of moot since we don't even know what they are yet

Has anyone managed to get a hold of them yet?!

[Ogami musashi]

No, as i said in another post Willis said that the rules were to be adopted before the next WMSC council june 30.

In the concord agreement it is written that the rules for the following year have to be finalized before july of the current season so that make sense.

He said that the rules were fixed but needed to be official.

As for the levels of downforce, the goal is 50% of 2006 levels, it is unclear as if 2006 levels were higher or not than now. I believe not but not sure.

Anyway, the max downforce should be around 1300Kg.

Now don't forget what it means, it just means the "maximum".

[WhiteBlue]

No, as i said in another post Willis said that the rules were to be adopted before the next WMSC council june 30.

In the concord agreement it is written that the rules for the following year have to be finalized before july of the current season so that make sense.

He said that the rules were fixed but needed to be official.

As for the levels of downforce, the goal is 50% of 2006 levels, it is unclear as if 2006 levels were higher or not than now. I believe not but not sure.

Anyway, the max downforce should be around 1300Kg.

Now don't forget what it means, it just means the "maximum".

if that id true the OWG has pretty much aimed at the 1.2 metric tons the FIA wanted. I say we can book that in as a corner piece of tech strategy for some time to come. the FIA wants 1.2 tons fixed. the teams propose a practical way and achieve 1.3 tons. the following years there will be a lot of fiddling and finessing. ultimately 1.2 tons will be fixed and controlled by technical means.

[Ogami musashi]

It remains to be seen what the final regs will be, but to me if there's really a maximum downforce set up, the loophole will be the "maximum" word.

If teams find ways to have non linear aeros, that's downforce that grow steeper to flatten out with speed (in order not to surpass the max allowed) then we'll have interesting fight.

That's more or less what is currently planned for 2011. The FIA want max downforce (the downforce in turns) to be cut around 850KG, but plans to allow the curve to increase so that a low speed and medium speed the downforce will be higher.
This is achieved by adaptive aeros.

Next year, no plans for it, but if some flexing rules are loosened we may see things like that.

Well anyway, if the tyre stays like that, the tyres already make up for the loss of downforce.

[Scotracer]

Isn't there a test coming very soon with a even newer compound of slicks proposed for next year? Is there any news on them? Since at the last test, the 2009 cars were faster than the 2008 cars, I get the suspicion that the FIA has stepped in to control speeds.

[Ogami musashi]

Yes in july, this will be the last test with the definitive compound.

AFAIK the FIA didn't say anything but the performance may be hampered by the warming problem.

The gripper the tyre the narrower the temperature of operation window.

Thus Bridgestone will maybe give an easier tyre to work with but with less grip..we'll see.

[alelanza]

Would lower downforce mean lighter suspension parts and tires? as they no longer have to withstand such a high stress?

[Conceptual]

Would lower downforce mean lighter suspension parts and tires? as they no longer have to withstand such a high stress?

The stress is eaten up in the packers and dampers, isn't it?

Chris

[alelanza]

The stress is eaten up in the packers and dampers, isn't it?

Chris

I probably didn't word that correctly. I mean that the car as a structure, will be required to withstand less maximum weight, so all parts in general could be lighter, allowing a designer more freedom to distribute those 650kg?
I mean, even the tires would require to withstand less max weight and could be made lighter? thus reducing the power loss from crank to whp?

[gcdugas]

The suspension components wouldn't be any lighter. The highest stress occurs during braking. Of course lower loads reduces maximum braking g-force since there is less grip to exploit, but in general those components need to be able to withstand shock loads from the kerbs and bumps that far exceed anything the wing may contribute as a constant.