Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
Look M-E, I aint "pushing" - you asked... ( I note: no other members have - so far - evinced any interest).
&,
Yes, your assumptions about "dead technology"; & yes, 50hp from a highly rules constrained, basic 125cc single is "impressive".
No way will you match the cost-effective power-density of a hi-po 2T Superkart - with a 250 4T mill..
How can you not know this?
Also, if you could be bothered to read even just the most recent posts in the thread I linked..
'Wobbly' discusses kart racing specifics..
& if you asked, & inc' the problems of racing with a stone-primitve chassis.. I reckon he'd give you a few clues..
about improvements..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"
Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).
You may be confusing the term "dead" with "bad", which is not what i'm saying. You still haven't listed any relevant points on any of the questions i posted, other than trying to convince me a 125cc or 250cc is worth my time, which i'm sure isn't, nor did i ask that at all. If i want a class restricted 125cc engine, i don't need to scour through a forum to find where to get one, and how to modify it to push 50hp. That information is broadly recorded throughout the entirety of the karting industry. I'm of the opinion that 5000USD+ for a 125cc making 50hp is not worth the money. If i wanted that info, i wouldn't be asking it here about "superkarts vs formula cars".
Also you keep associating class restrictions and other issues into the conversation when i never once mentioned anything about trying to conform to the current outdated regulations associated with the karting industry. My questions were not bound to FIA or national regulations and how to find loop holes, the entire point FIA has restricted performance is to create a equal and unbiased playing field for racers as much as possible. Its the same in all racing classes. This means absolutely nothing to me, nor am i looking for some technical advantage in any of the current classes. The base question is how does the latest superkarts compare to those junior formula classes and what IMPROVED innovations can help them surpass there overall performance, not what regurgitated old tech that currently exist. So far, you telling me about the wonders of 50hp 125cc engines mean absolutely nothing in this regard as we already know a 4 stroke 2 liter I4 makes more power with respect to cost. It's the exact reason why they use it oppose to a 2stroke.
I appreciate your responses, but you aren't really discussing anything i asked.
Dude, seriously.. with that 'tude, I doubt you'll find what you are looking for.. here.. at least..
The whole kart deal is, from basic to 'Super'.. AFAIR.. about doing the best you can with a strictly limited deal..
& you miss the point about discussion with 'Wobbly'.. he could build you a proven 100hp 400cc twin based on an
inexpensive, but fairly light (~80lbs inc' 6-speed box) production Yamaha.. & for under $5,000..
As for your 'pipe dream' of a 2000cc 4T car engine powered 'Superkart'..
Well.. just what is your proposed function point?
If you have the cash to splash, you can get one ( or many) built, ok sure - but to what purpose?
People with the where-with-all, & interest in racing - will still go to the likes of a KTM X-Bow, or Radical type machine..
or from karts to 'real' Formula racecars, & IMO, are unlikely to be interested in what you propose..
A great big lump of an inexpensive production-based 2 litre car mill will simply make an ornery pig - of any light kart chassis.. again dude, seriously.. its a matter of basic physics..
I might suggest you obtain a 'write off' WRC 2 litre turbo tarmac-spec car & strip it to its bare-bones, inc' losing the shell,
add a space-frame covered by a low aero-body & see how stupidly wild it would be - in Superkart dimension form..
Edit: Adit queries.. do feel free to address them M-E...
Last edited by J.A.W. on 13 May 2018, 07:44, edited 6 times in total.
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"
Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).
Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).
Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).
It does seem a 250cc superkart is on par with a Formula 4 and could most likely match a older F3 with upgrades and modern changes. Would be interesting to see what would be needed to match a F3.
Unsurprisingly, it still is as fast as modern GT cars, but it should be a bit faster than a couple tenths.
I have a shifter that I built myself as a trainer and learning experience that uses a Cr 250 Honda. After having the 125 wear me out constantly shifting it, the 250 is much easier to drive. It is a little difficult to find a gear tall enough to utilize the torque. It works well with the stock powervalve, Boysen reed, and ported head. If I were to race I would guess the KTM 250 would be the ticket to extract top end HP and RPM?
