2021 Engine thread

[roon]

Loud for the sake of being loud is no path forward. Performance I.C.E.s were only ever loud as a byproduct of performance needs, not dull tradition. F1 and others have long been in the era of performance restriction. Lightweight mufflers are not alien to motorsports; nor are safety belts, crash hardware, lights, etc. FE is advantaged by being quiet, in terms of venue placement. I've said for a while that F1 should have simply altered the hybrids' cylinder count & bank angle to tune the sound, plus a slight increase to the fuel flow to compensate for internal friction (or not, efficiency is the goal after all). Structural weight increase could be absorbed by altering other component specs, if necessary.

[FrukostScones]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13624 ... e-decision

I predict that Aston Martin will never build this engine.

[saviour stivala]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13624 ... e-decision

I predict that Aston Martin will never build this engine.

Aston Martin to decide if to proceed or not with the F1 engine? would like to know what Aton Martin boss Andy has been smoking to make him joke like this.

[NL_Fer]

http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/23613 ... -tech-2021

Seems Mercedes gave up their mgu-h. I guess we can conclude the others would agree too.

[AJI]

http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/23613 ... -tech-2021

Seems Mercedes gave up their mgu-h. I guess we can conclude the others would agree too.

So the luddites win. Congratulations.
You can't half tell we live in an era where the constant pursuit of popularity pips perfection...

[AnotherAlex]

http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/23613 ... -tech-2021

Seems Mercedes gave up their mgu-h. I guess we can conclude the others would agree too.

So the luddites win. Congratulations.
You can't half tell we live in an era where the constant pursuit of popularity pips perfection...

Indeed!

Given Mercedes' behaviour on the 2019 aero rules front I guess we can conclude that the performance of Ferrari's MGU-H has exceeded their own.

[Just_a_fan]

Given Mercedes' behaviour on the 2019 aero rules front I guess we can conclude that the performance of Ferrari's MGU-H has exceeded their own.

You can't draw a straight line with only one data point...

[Tommy Cookers]

abandoning the MGU-H has now apparently been accepted - so greatly increased braking recovery is expected

what happens when some part of the greatly increased recovery system trips out during braking ?
this may be an argument for all-wheel recovery
or design rules to force the mechanical brakes to be able to do the whole braking job

what do the endurance racers do when their 300 kW ? recovery systems trip out ?

[CBeck113]

Given Mercedes' behaviour on the 2019 aero rules front I guess we can conclude that the performance of Ferrari's MGU-H has exceeded their own.

You can't draw a straight line with only one data point...

Wrong - you can draw any line with only one point

[AJI]

abandoning the MGU-H has now apparently been accepted - so greatly increased braking recovery is expected

what happens when some part of the greatly increased recovery system trips out during braking ?
this may be an argument for all-wheel recovery
or design rules to force the mechanical brakes to be able to do the whole braking job

what do the endurance racers do when their 300 kW ? recovery systems trip out ?

Unless aero is greatly reduced I fail to see how they can even begin to approach 300kW recovery.
The current cars barely recover 2MJ of K energy (braking) per lap in a best case scenario, and for 2021 they have to recover 2.5 times that amount...
Maybe I'm missing something?

[hurril]

abandoning the MGU-H has now apparently been accepted - so greatly increased braking recovery is expected

what happens when some part of the greatly increased recovery system trips out during braking ?
this may be an argument for all-wheel recovery
or design rules to force the mechanical brakes to be able to do the whole braking job

what do the endurance racers do when their 300 kW ? recovery systems trip out ?

Unless aero is greatly reduced I fail to see how they can even begin to approach 300kW recovery.
The current cars barely recover 2MJ of K energy (braking) per lap in a best case scenario, and for 2021 they have to recover 2.5 times that amount...
Maybe I'm missing something?

You are missing that a bigger generator will produce more power.

[AJI]

abandoning the MGU-H has now apparently been accepted - so greatly increased braking recovery is expected

what happens when some part of the greatly increased recovery system trips out during braking ?
this may be an argument for all-wheel recovery
or design rules to force the mechanical brakes to be able to do the whole braking job

what do the endurance racers do when their 300 kW ? recovery systems trip out ?

Unless aero is greatly reduced I fail to see how they can even begin to approach 300kW recovery.
The current cars barely recover 2MJ of K energy (braking) per lap in a best case scenario, and for 2021 they have to recover 2.5 times that amount...
Maybe I'm missing something?

You are missing that a bigger generator will produce more power.

Sure, but if you don't use the brakes then you don't get any recovery no matter how big the generator is...
TC's point on all wheel recovery is the only way I can make the calculations work, and that is not going to happen

[hurril]

Unless aero is greatly reduced I fail to see how they can even begin to approach 300kW recovery.
The current cars barely recover 2MJ of K energy (braking) per lap in a best case scenario, and for 2021 they have to recover 2.5 times that amount...
Maybe I'm missing something?

You are missing that a bigger generator will produce more power.

Sure, but if you don't use the brakes then you don't get any recovery no matter how big the generator is...
TC's point on all wheel recovery is the only way I can make the calculations work, and that is not going to happen

120kW is not using 100% of the available breaking power so a bigger generator can and will produce more power. It's important that we keep energy and power separate.

[NL_Fer]

The plan is they loose the full lap off ERS they have now. They can deploy the 300kw on chosen parts of the track and save up several laps to have one longer stint of deployment.

[AJI]

You are missing that a bigger generator will produce more power.

Sure, but if you don't use the brakes then you don't get any recovery no matter how big the generator is...
TC's point on all wheel recovery is the only way I can make the calculations work, and that is not going to happen

120kW is not using 100% of the available breaking power so a bigger generator can and will produce more power. It's important that we keep energy and power separate.

It still doesn't change the fact that the current cars cannot even recover 2MJ per lap from the rear axle under brakes with a +/-120kW K. They simply don't use the brakes enough to do it.
Yes, a bigger K will give you the ability to capture more braking energy, but if the aero is the same that lack of braking is a problem. Have they mentioned anything about ES SoC limits? With a 300kW motor 4MJ per lap isn't a problem, but that's pretty much the limit unless they start burning fuel to charge the ES.