Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[turbof1]

So guys,

First of all I want to applaud the people who try to pull the discussion back on topic . It's so great to see this, and I encourage to keep that up!

Naturally, we don't allow random accusations of cheating. That is speculative talk of the highest order, until of course it is proven Ferrari effectively broken the rules. With proven I effectively mean a statement from the FIA. Until that point it's wild and very much off topic to brand Ferrari as cheaters.

However, we can argue if perhaps Ferrari found a loophole or a grey zone in the rules to utilise. As long as that is debated in the context of the existing hardware of the Ferrari PU, I'm happy with that, and that's what has been going on. One should not confuse talk about a grey zone in the rules for outright cheating; that's rediculous given the present information we have. So please, do discuss if Ferrari is using a greyzone or loophole in the rules.

[Singabule]

So in summary: Ferrari has best electrical energy management, merc has the most efficient ICE, honda blow up the issue to public via extra harvest and extra deployment explanation, and renault is silence because their TC, MGUH, and ES still lagging and blowing up.. No one cheat the regulation, and as it make PU more efficient FIA just let it happen, and merc angry coz they are not superior anymore and point fingers to Ferrari, Tanabe san smiling and Renault scratching their head as their push to hybrid regulation backfire. End of story

[F1NAC]

Green lights from FIA, Amen

[Phil]

Green light? If whatever Ferrari was doing with the battery, was gaining them laptime, they now can no longer do it (supposedly) with the changes the FIA requested. The only “green light” there is, is that the other teams can no longer protest the results on the previous races.

[siskue2005]

Green lights from FIA, Amen

yes for the current version seen in Monaco

[LM10]

Green light? If whatever Ferrari was doing with the battery, was gaining them laptime, they now can no longer do it (supposedly) with the changes the FIA requested. The only “green light” there is, is that the other teams can no longer protest the results on the previous races.

If their gain was being done fairly, I don't see a reason why they still shouldn't gain? If the FIA can't prove the illegality of what Ferrari is doing, but still wants them to use the hardware (which might make sure they don't gain anything) for the rest of the season, that's unfair, in my opinion.

[Phil]

You are too hung up about what is fair or isnt. There was suspicion that Ferrari was getting more out of the battery than allowed. The competing teams [Mercedes & Co.] threatened to protest and wanted clarity. This lead to the FIA requesting changes at Ferrari to make sure that they could not get more out of the battery than allowed. Hence, now with those changes in place, they [the FIA] are confident everything is in order. This means whatever Ferrari was doing BEFORE those changes were made, can no longer be done.

There is good reason to believe that whatever Ferrari was doing with the battery, they stopped doing it after Baku (and before Barcelona). Now they definitely cant anymore. It may explain some of why their pace went away in Barcelona compared to the races before that.

[Mamba]

You are too hung up about what is fair or isnt. There was suspicion that Ferrari was getting more out of the battery than allowed. The competing teams [Mercedes & Co.] threatened to protest and wanted clarity. This lead to the FIA requesting changes at Ferrari to make sure that they could not get more out of the battery than allowed. Hence, now with those changes in place, they [the FIA] are confident everything is in order. This means whatever Ferrari was doing BEFORE those changes were made, can no longer be done.

There is good reason to believe that whatever Ferrari was doing with the battery, they stopped doing it after Baku (and before Barcelona). Now they definitely cant anymore. It may explain some of why their pace went away in Barcelona compared to the races before that.

Barcelona was down to the tyre changes and Ferrari not using theirs as well as Mercedes. Ferrari were only a tenth off pole in Barcelona using a harder tyre. That is tyre usage, not engine modes. Race was tyre deg which was much higher than RB or Merc.
Would the FIA not go further than a few code changes if blatant cheating was found? (Cue Ferrari International Assistance cries). If they had to monitor Mercedes or Renault they will probably ask for a few changes there too. Let us see in the next races if there is suddenly a drop or if Mercedes really have gone on a witch hunt which is the one I am more likely to believe.

[LM10]

Sorry, but I just can't understand why something which is not even understood and known if legal or not, is kind of banned. Maybe Ferrari actually found a way of very effective energy management within the limits of the rules? If FIA tells that Ferrari was cheating/putting out more power than allowed, then perfectly ok to change something. But right now I've the feeling FIA just changed it because they weren't sure about what Ferrari was doing (therefore also couldn't say if it was legal or not).

Maybe I'm missing something in my interpretation of all this, but for now it feels weird.

[godlameroso]

Maybe it's just people reacting to rumors, Ferrari's pace hasn't dropped a lick, it's been the same. Relative to others yes the pace changes depending on track. However none of this should be a surprise to you if you were paying attention during winter testing, and the last few seasons.

[Phil]

You are too hung up about what is fair or isnt. There was suspicion that Ferrari was getting more out of the battery than allowed. The competing teams [Mercedes & Co.] threatened to protest and wanted clarity. This lead to the FIA requesting changes at Ferrari to make sure that they could not get more out of the battery than allowed. Hence, now with those changes in place, they [the FIA] are confident everything is in order. This means whatever Ferrari was doing BEFORE those changes were made, can no longer be done.

There is good reason to believe that whatever Ferrari was doing with the battery, they stopped doing it after Baku (and before Barcelona). Now they definitely cant anymore. It may explain some of why their pace went away in Barcelona compared to the races before that.

Barcelona was down to the tyre changes and Ferrari not using theirs as well as Mercedes. Ferrari were only a tenth off pole in Barcelona using a harder tyre. That is tyre usage, not engine modes. Race was tyre deg which was much higher than RB or Merc.
Would the FIA not go further than a few code changes if blatant cheating was found? (Cue Ferrari International Assistance cries). If they had to monitor Mercedes or Renault they will probably ask for a few changes there too. Let us see in the next races if there is suddenly a drop or if Mercedes really have gone on a witch hunt which is the one I am more likely to believe.

Barcelona could be down to multiple reasons, not just tires. And about their pace in Q3 on the “harder tire” - it was the quicker tire throughout the weekend. Mercedes just got away not using it.

And about the battery, again:

1.) Ferrari might have found a way to bypass the 4MJ limit and FIA sensor to extract more.

2.) other teams got wind of it due to GPS data which raised suspicion.

3.) They wanted clarity, treathened with protest.

4.) FIA looked into it, but apparently it is too complicated to know exactly what is going on - in other words, they cant say for sure if Ferrari is breaching the rules or not, but they could be. Either way, they cant prove it.

5.) going forward and to counter protests, the FIA had Ferrari change something to ensure that the battery limit is/can no longer be breached/by-passed.

For all we know, it could be a second sensor that has been attached to the battery to ensure no (more) breaching is done.

What ever it is, Ferrari get to keep their fancy battery setup but it’s evidently more closely monitored to ensure compliant usage.

End result: everyone is satisfied and can now move forward. The question however remains (and the next races will probably show this) if Ferrari has lost some of that qualifying edge/boost because of it.

[Big Tea]

You are too hung up about what is fair or isnt. There was suspicion that Ferrari was getting more out of the battery than allowed. The competing teams [Mercedes & Co.] threatened to protest and wanted clarity. This lead to the FIA requesting changes at Ferrari to make sure that they could not get more out of the battery than allowed. Hence, now with those changes in place, they [the FIA] are confident everything is in order. This means whatever Ferrari was doing BEFORE those changes were made, can no longer be done.

There is good reason to believe that whatever Ferrari was doing with the battery, they stopped doing it after Baku (and before Barcelona). Now they definitely cant anymore. It may explain some of why their pace went away in Barcelona compared to the races before that.

Barcelona was down to the tyre changes and Ferrari not using theirs as well as Mercedes. Ferrari were only a tenth off pole in Barcelona using a harder tyre. That is tyre usage, not engine modes. Race was tyre deg which was much higher than RB or Merc.
Would the FIA not go further than a few code changes if blatant cheating was found? (Cue Ferrari International Assistance cries). If they had to monitor Mercedes or Renault they will probably ask for a few changes there too. Let us see in the next races if there is suddenly a drop or if Mercedes really have gone on a witch hunt which is the one I am more likely to believe.

Barcelona could be down to multiple reasons, not just tires. And about their pace in Q3 on the “harder tire” - it was the quicker tire throughout the weekend. Mercedes just got away not using it.

And about the battery, again:
1.) Ferrari might have found a was to bypass the 4MJ limit and FIA sensor to extract more.

2.) other teams got wind of it due to GPS data which raised suspicion.

3.) They wanted clarity, threathened with protest.

4.) FIA looked into it, but apparently it is too complicated to know exactly what is going on - in other words, they cant say for sure if Ferrari is breaching the rules or not, but they could be.

5.) going forward and to counter protests, the FIA had Ferrari change something to ensure that the battery limit is/can no longer be breached/by-passed.

For all we know, it could be a second sensor that has been attached to the battery to ensure no (more) breaching is done.

What ever it is, Ferrari get to keep their fancy battery setup but it’s evidently more closely monitored to ensure compliant usage.

End result: everyone is satisfied and can now move forward. The question however remains (and the next races will probably show this) if Ferrari has lost some of that qualifying edge/boost because of it.

like a blind man closing the barn door incase there is a horse inside. It still stops the horse getting out if it is there, if not his wife can not give him a row for leaving it open.

[giantfan10]

You are too hung up about what is fair or isnt. There was suspicion that Ferrari was getting more out of the battery than allowed. The competing teams [Mercedes & Co.] threatened to protest and wanted clarity. This lead to the FIA requesting changes at Ferrari to make sure that they could not get more out of the battery than allowed. Hence, now with those changes in place, they [the FIA] are confident everything is in order. This means whatever Ferrari was doing BEFORE those changes were made, can no longer be done.

There is good reason to believe that whatever Ferrari was doing with the battery, they stopped doing it after Baku (and before Barcelona). Now they definitely cant anymore. It may explain some of why their pace went away in Barcelona compared to the races before that.

Barcelona was down to the tyre changes and Ferrari not using theirs as well as Mercedes. Ferrari were only a tenth off pole in Barcelona using a harder tyre. That is tyre usage, not engine modes. Race was tyre deg which was much higher than RB or Merc.
Would the FIA not go further than a few code changes if blatant cheating was found? (Cue Ferrari International Assistance cries). If they had to monitor Mercedes or Renault they will probably ask for a few changes there too. Let us see in the next races if there is suddenly a drop or if Mercedes really have gone on a witch hunt which is the one I am more likely to believe.

Barcelona could be down to multiple reasons, not just tires. And about their pace in Q3 on the “harder tire” - it was the quicker tire throughout the weekend. Mercedes just got away not using it.

And about the battery, again:

1.) Ferrari might have found a way to bypass the 4MJ limit and FIA sensor to extract more.

2.) other teams got wind of it due to GPS data which raised suspicion.

3.) They wanted clarity, treathened with protest.

4.) FIA looked into it, but apparently it is too complicated to know exactly what is going on - in other words, they cant say for sure if Ferrari is breaching the rules or not, but they could be. Either way, they cant prove it.

5.) going forward and to counter protests, the FIA had Ferrari change something to ensure that the battery limit is/can no longer be breached/by-passed.

For all we know, it could be a second sensor that has been attached to the battery to ensure no (more) breaching is done.

What ever it is, Ferrari get to keep their fancy battery setup but it’s evidently more closely monitored to ensure compliant usage.

End result: everyone is satisfied and can now move forward. The question however remains (and the next races will probably show this) if Ferrari has lost some of that qualifying edge/boost because of it.

What a convoluted biased mess you just typed... The FACT is the FIA never found that Ferrari was doing any cheating.....ZERO....these are the facts.

We wanted to really get to the bottom of it and in Spain (two weekends ago), they took some measures to make sure we understood it more and that we were seeing things that we were happy with.”

He said former Renault engine expert Cedrik Staudohar, now working for the FIA, had played an important role in the technical probe.

Todt, a former Ferrari boss, said he had first heard about the problem after the race in Baku and that any rivals with concerns should have aired them openly.

“If a team has some doubts, they could have made a protest,” he said. “It would be much more healthy rather than to manipulate the press to address the problem.”

[CriXus]

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12040/ ... l-concerns

Whiting: "The matter was exacerbated by unsubstantiated allegations that went through the paddock like wildfire. It came from a Ferrari engine man now at Mercedes, but his information would be the length of his gardening leave old."

According to the Mail, 'Whiting identified the 'Ferrari engine man' as Lorenzo Sassi, and, more explosively, revealed that the matter was brought to the FIA's attention by Mercedes' technical director James Allison prior to the fourth race of the season in Baku.'

The FIA had been monitoring the system in Baku and Barcelona, with Whiting claiming the sport's governing body had initially seen "some things in the data we could not quite explain", stating that Ferrari "gave explanations which were not particularly convincing".

"We wanted to really get to the bottom of it and in Spain (two weekends ago)," he added. "They took some measures to make sure we understood it more and that we were seeing things that we were happy with."

FIA president Jean Todt has also had his say on the rumours about the Ferrari, telling The Sun: "If a team has some doubts, they could have made a protest. It would be much more healthy, rather than to manipulate to the press the problem."

[LM10]

What I understand from this article is that Ferrari's ERS is and has been ok/legal and not just after having implemented or changed any software?