Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

[Sevach]

One big change wasn't highlighted, the L-arm at the bottom got longer.

[wesley123]

There's also a small, near-vertical, tab placed on the tub.

[zioture]

Full Gallery FP1 FP2 Canada

http://www.newsf1.it/foto-gallery-formula_1/

[ringo]

This car is starting to look like third best, with an engine that makes it second best.

[aral]

A reminder that this thread is about the actual technical details of the W09. discussion about testing, ferrari etc should be done on the team thread, whilst discussion about the canadian GP should be on the......(wait for it!).....the CANADIAN GP thread

[Morteza]

This car is starting to look like third best, with an engine that makes it second best.

Do you think it's because of their aero in the sidepod area? Should they have gone the route of Ferrari and Red Bull?
They are not developing their car at the same pace of those two teams either.

[zibby43]

This car is starting to look like third best, with an engine that makes it second best.

Do you think it's because of their aero in the sidepod area? Should they have gone the route of Ferrari and Red Bull?
They are not developing their car at the same pace of those two teams either.

Not the poster you were replying to but I think the aero is on the right track. Constant refinement and tuning of a proven concept. It appears there is a lot going on "under the skin" of the W09, as well.

Ferrari's gains and additions stand out more this year because they've basically copied Merc's concept from last year, just without the same level of detail and specificity (yet) in the bargeboard area, in particular. That's what Ferrari is trying to achieve this year.

I don't think Merc is in any real trouble. They just went to one of the most power-dependent circuits on the calendar with an old engine (down probably 10 hp through use/age), up against an upgraded Ferrari PU (down another 10-15 hp), that put them down easily 20-25 horsepower.

And Bottas was just pipped by Vettel for pole. Of course we find out after the weekend that Hamilton had a bird cooking in one of his brake ducts during Q3, which likely played a role in his repeated lock-ups at the hairpin.

Mercedes needs to once again re-adjust to the fact that the margins are smaller than ever, and they cannot afford any mistakes in strategy, or on the team/preparation side.

[LM10]

Ferrari's gains and additions stand out more this year because they've basically copied Merc's concept from last year, just without the same level of detail and specificity (yet) in the bargeboard area, in particular. That's what Ferrari is trying to achieve this year.

I think the longer wheelbase is the only "copy". And I'm not sure to which extent this can be considered as a copy since it was the only logical step to increase the wheelbase to be competitive on faster tracks. But maybe I've missed any other copied parts in that concept.

I don't think Merc is in any real trouble. They just went to one of the most power-dependent circuits on the calendar with an old engine (down probably 10 hp through use/age), up against an upgraded Ferrari PU (down another 25-30 hp), that put them down easily 25-35 horsepower.

I think you didn't really mean that. Ferrari's engine upgrade was worth 10 hp so for Mercedes to be down "another" 25-30 hp just on pure power difference their spec 1 engine must have been 15-20 hp lower on power than Ferrari's spec 1 engine.

[zibby43]

Ferrari's gains and additions stand out more this year because they've basically copied Merc's concept from last year, just without the same level of detail and specificity (yet) in the bargeboard area, in particular. That's what Ferrari is trying to achieve this year.

I think the longer wheelbase is the only "copy". And I'm not sure to which extent this can be considered as a copy since it was the only logical step to increase the wheelbase to be competitive on faster tracks. But maybe I've missed any other copied parts in that concept.

I don't think Merc is in any real trouble. They just went to one of the most power-dependent circuits on the calendar with an old engine (down probably 10 hp through use/age), up against an upgraded Ferrari PU (down another 25-30 hp), that put them down easily 25-35 horsepower.

I think you didn't really mean that. Ferrari's engine upgrade was worth 10 hp so for Mercedes to be down "another" 25-30 hp just on pure power difference their spec 1 engine must have been 15-20 hp lower on power than Ferrari's spec 1 engine.

The longer wheelbase changes the aerodynamic picture entirely.

Re: the PU upgrade, it was a typo. I corrected it. Thank you for pointing it out.

But, in total, down 20 hp is an extremely conservative estimate. Ferrari's newest spec made a step in fuel efficiency as well.

Topic for another thread though.

[mantikos]

Ferrari's gains and additions stand out more this year because they've basically copied Merc's concept from last year, just without the same level of detail and specificity (yet) in the bargeboard area, in particular. That's what Ferrari is trying to achieve this year.

I think the longer wheelbase is the only "copy". And I'm not sure to which extent this can be considered as a copy since it was the only logical step to increase the wheelbase to be competitive on faster tracks. But maybe I've missed any other copied parts in that concept.

I don't think Merc is in any real trouble. They just went to one of the most power-dependent circuits on the calendar with an old engine (down probably 10 hp through use/age), up against an upgraded Ferrari PU (down another 25-30 hp), that put them down easily 25-35 horsepower.

I think you didn't really mean that. Ferrari's engine upgrade was worth 10 hp so for Mercedes to be down "another" 25-30 hp just on pure power difference their spec 1 engine must have been 15-20 hp lower on power than Ferrari's spec 1 engine.

Almost everyone has copied the bits of the W floor from the previous Merc cars, as well as the serrated bargeboard idea

[Mr.G]

This car is starting to look like third best, with an engine that makes it second best.

Do you think it's because of their aero in the sidepod area? Should they have gone the route of Ferrari and Red Bull?
They are not developing their car at the same pace of those two teams either.

Not the poster you were replying to but I think the aero is on the right track. Constant refinement and tuning of a proven concept. It appears there is a lot going on "under the skin" of the W09, as well.

Ferrari's gains and additions stand out more this year because they've basically copied Merc's concept from last year, just without the same level of detail and specificity (yet) in the bargeboard area, in particular. That's what Ferrari is trying to achieve this year.

I don't think Merc is in any real trouble. They just went to one of the most power-dependent circuits on the calendar with an old engine (down probably 10 hp through use/age), up against an upgraded Ferrari PU (down another 10-15 hp), that put them down easily 20-25 horsepower.

And Bottas was just pipped by Vettel for pole. Of course we find out after the weekend that Hamilton had a bird cooking in one of his brake ducts during Q3, which likely played a role in his repeated lock-ups at the hairpin.

Mercedes needs to once again re-adjust to the fact that the margins are smaller than ever, and they cannot afford any mistakes in strategy, or on the team/preparation side.

Regarding Hamilton's issue - haven't they a grid protecting the duct to "swallow" anything?

[Just_a_fan]

Regarding Hamilton's issue - haven't they a grid protecting the duct to "swallow" anything?

There are several openings but only one has a grid on it. Of course, if a small bird hit the front wing first, you'd get bits of small bird that could end up anywhere. Or, maybe the bird hit the opening with the grid on it and then just covered the grid so preventing air getting to the brake. Being that near to 800degC brakes would probably give a gentle char to the birdy hence the reported BBQ smell...

[zibby43]

Regarding Hamilton's issue - haven't they a grid protecting the duct to "swallow" anything?

There are several openings but only one has a grid on it. Of course, if a small bird hit the front wing first, you'd get bits of small bird that could end up anywhere. Or, maybe the bird hit the opening with the grid on it and then just covered the grid so preventing air getting to the brake. Being that near to 800degC brakes would probably give a gentle char to the birdy hence the reported BBQ smell...

Well said. It was a rough weekend for wildlife in Montreal. First the groundhog, then the bird.

It's likely the bird issue was only a contributing factor, as opposed to the predominant one. Hamilton also took a wrong setup turn late in practice.

Which makes Toto's comments about "small mistakes" all weekend a bit clearer.

On a side note, does anyone else get the feeling that the Merc is going to turn up at Paul Ricard with some major chassis upgrades, in addition to the new PU?

[F1Krof]

Regarding Hamilton's issue - haven't they a grid protecting the duct to "swallow" anything?

There are several openings but only one has a grid on it. Of course, if a small bird hit the front wing first, you'd get bits of small bird that could end up anywhere. Or, maybe the bird hit the opening with the grid on it and then just covered the grid so preventing air getting to the brake. Being that near to 800degC brakes would probably give a gentle char to the birdy hence the reported BBQ smell...

Well said. It was a rough weekend for wildlife in Montreal. First the groundhog, then the bird.

It's likely the bird issue was only a contributing factor, as opposed to the predominant one. Hamilton also took a wrong setup turn late in practice.

Which makes Toto's comments about "small mistakes" all weekend a bit clearer.

On a side note, does anyone else get the feeling that the Merc is going to turn up at Paul Ricard with some major chassis upgrades, in addition to the new PU?

I personally don't think so. All they have done this year is brought simple small incremental upgrades. This is very odd to say the least. Either they're very very confident they have a good chassis and they did not plan any major upgrade and they have some other problem (tires) that they cannot extract the maximum out of the chassis, OR... everything is as I said, working to plan perfectly, it is just the competition overdeveloped them during the winter and now they are left playing catch-up with an unplanned plan. The just didn't do a good job (relative to the competition), and they seem to have underestimated the competition.

But there is another thing I suspect. It is about Winter Testing. Their apparent dominance was true, and they were lulled into false sense of security, however, as it turns out their dominance was track specific (Barcelona). So they must have calculated their performance relative to the others and must have assumed that small incremental upgrades would be enough to keep them ahead... until it apparently isn't.

They are playing catchup in so many areas.

1. Tire Management - time and time again, they just cannot use those softer compounds efficient enough.
2. Traction - they are lacking behind both Ferrari & Red Bull.
3. Max-Downforce - they are lacking behind both Ferrari & Red Bull. Especially the rear balance.
4. Engine - Advantage GONE.
5. Aero Efficiency - Straight-line Speed GONE. They are behind Ferrari.
6. Suspension - it is very edgy on high curbs, and bumpy surface. (I suspect new SMOOTH tarmac in Spain played on their hand more than we might give credit to).

[Vanja #66]

This car is starting to look like third best, with an engine that makes it second best.

Do you think it's because of their aero in the sidepod area? Should they have gone the route of Ferrari and Red Bull?
They are not developing their car at the same pace of those two teams either.

You can't develop a car as fast as you want if it's reaching it's development limit.