VW diesel cars fallout

[Cold Fussion]

It's hardly irrational considering that it most instances you get better fuel economy, diesel is cheaper than petrol in Europe and are taxed less aggressively. Given that this isn't the case (apart from fuel economy) in other parts of the world it isn't surprising that it isn't so enamoured.

[djos]

It's hardly irrational considering that it most instances you get better fuel economy, diesel is cheaper than petrol in Europe and are taxed less aggressively. Given that this isn't the case (apart from fuel economy) in other parts of the world it isn't surprising that it isn't so enamoured.

Petrol was made artificially more expensive via taxation in the EU - in most countries outside the EU diesel is slightly more expensive. eg here in Australia it's usually about 10c p/ltr dearer than Standard ULP.

However when you factor in the servicing costs & intervals, Petrol cars in most countries are cheaper to own and run over all.

[roon]

Before taxation, I'm not sure what's the cheaper base product: gasoline or modern low-sulfur diesel. Multiple factors play into the per gallon production cost of these fuels; the composition of the initial crude oil, the capabilities and capacity of the refinery, the supply/demand requirement for all the distillation and fractionation products a refinery needs to meet at any given moment. I don't think there's a clear cut answer beyond saying they're roughly similar in cost. Distillate fuel oils may always be an enticing product for refineries to produce, unless asked or told not to. What else are they going to do with that component of the crude oil?

[Tommy Cookers]

heat their houses with it
as Europe did till it found it had huge amounts of North Sea gas to burn
that's the reason we had the diesel rammed down our throats

[roon]

I should have rephrased that last bit.

Distillate fuel oils may always be an enticing product for refineries to produce, unless asked or told not to. Other than burning it, what else are they going to do with that component of the crude oil?

If there's a sizeable portion of every barrel of crude not being sold off as fuel oil, due to emissions regulations, consumer disinterest, or better alternatives, what else would that portion be used for?

[Tommy Cookers]

any portion of crude oil is processable into a more fuel valuable product - at a cost in money and energy/carbon footprint
such technology eg 'Platforming' has been used on a large scale for 75 years

the irony is that the fuss is referenced to a greatly tightened pollutant standard focussed on NOx
ie the engines are fundamentally an order of magnitude less (conventionally) polluting than they were a few years ago

[J.A.W.]

& yet the very toxic airborne nano-particulates - produced by the high pressures/heat - of diesel fuel combustion..
do/will.. remain problematic..

[Just_a_fan]

Tyres also produce tiny particles that are bad for your health. Cars/buses/lorries/aeroplanes/ships (except for gliders and sailing ships) are all bad for the environment and our health. They also allow our "modern" world to function. Compromise time reached then...

[djos]

Tyres also produce tiny particles that are bad for your health. Cars/buses/lorries/aeroplanes/ships (except for gliders and sailing ships) are all bad for the environment and our health. They also allow our "modern" world to function. Compromise time reached then...

Tires dont produce nano-particles that cross the blood-brain barrier and cause cancer etc etc.

[Cold Fussion]

It's hardly irrational considering that it most instances you get better fuel economy, diesel is cheaper than petrol in Europe and are taxed less aggressively. Given that this isn't the case (apart from fuel economy) in other parts of the world it isn't surprising that it isn't so enamoured.

Petrol was made artificially more expensive via taxation in the EU - in most countries outside the EU diesel is slightly more expensive. eg here in Australia it's usually about 10c p/ltr dearer than Standard ULP.

However when you factor in the servicing costs & intervals, Petrol cars in most countries are cheaper to own and run over all.

Isn't the price of all fuel in most first world countries largely artificial because of the level of taxation on it?

[Thunder18]

They're rolling cancer machines. Amongst other drawbacks.
Not sure why people are in love with them.
Any savings on fuel are offset by twice the filters and maintenance.
Different strokes and such.
Wouldn't own one if you paid me.

Hear hear! They should be restricted to large SUV's and truck's, shoving them into regular passenger vehicles was the worst idea imaginable!

Thirded

[djos]

It's hardly irrational considering that it most instances you get better fuel economy, diesel is cheaper than petrol in Europe and are taxed less aggressively. Given that this isn't the case (apart from fuel economy) in other parts of the world it isn't surprising that it isn't so enamoured.

Petrol was made artificially more expensive via taxation in the EU - in most countries outside the EU diesel is slightly more expensive. eg here in Australia it's usually about 10c p/ltr dearer than Standard ULP.

However when you factor in the servicing costs & intervals, Petrol cars in most countries are cheaper to own and run over all.

Isn't the price of all fuel in most first world countries largely artificial because of the level of taxation on it?

Sure, however diesel and petrol are taxed at the same rate in Aus (39c per litre) - most EU countries tax petrol at a higher rate than diesel which was a big factor in driving its popularity.

[Just_a_fan]

Tyres also produce tiny particles that are bad for your health. Cars/buses/lorries/aeroplanes/ships (except for gliders and sailing ships) are all bad for the environment and our health. They also allow our "modern" world to function. Compromise time reached then...

Tires dont produce nano-particles that cross the blood-brain barrier and cause cancer etc etc.

No but they produce particles that can lodge in the deep lung tissue and cause lung cancer.

[Just_a_fan]

They're rolling cancer machines. Amongst other drawbacks.
Not sure why people are in love with them.
Any savings on fuel are offset by twice the filters and maintenance.
Different strokes and such.
Wouldn't own one if you paid me.

If you live in a country where fuel prices are low e.g. the US when compared to the EU, petrol (gasoline) is great. Back when diesel became popular in the EU, diesels generally gave much better miles per gallon than petrol. Thus it was a no-brainer to swap. These days, small petrol engines give diesel-equalling miles per gallon (or close enough to not worry) so petrol is becoming a valid option again.

If we in the UK paid £3/gallon for petrol I'd be driving around in a V8 petrol. But we don't - we currently pay around £6/gallon. According to https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/USA/gasoline_prices/ the US are paying less than half that...so the financial benefits of diesel over petrol never made sense there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no great fan of diesel but it makes sense in some places. My current thoughts are towards a petrol V8 4x4 for towing and playing and a PHEV/EV for daily work use.

[Just_a_fan]

most EU countries tax petrol at a higher rate than diesel which was a big factor in driving its popularity.

Indeed so, along with the fact that back when diesels started to become popular they gave much better mpg than did the equivalent petrol. Even if the fuel cost was the same, the fact that you needed a good deal less diesel made them a popular choice. These days, there's little to choose between petrol and diesel in real mpg terms to be honest.