Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

[ringo]

Austria is an engine track. It can be seen where Haas shines on the engine biased tracks compared to renault and even close to redbull.

[Vanja #66]

Yeah, Haas was so good in China and Canada... And Azerbaijan.

[zibby43]

Austria is an engine track. It can be seen where Haas shines on the engine biased tracks compared to renault and even close to redbull.

Haas has had a much better overall package, particularly on the chassis side, than FI all year.

And Williams is absolutely dreadful this year. So I don't know if I'd be looking at customer team performance as the indicator for the PU power rankings.

[zibby43]

Not sure about that. It more rightly shows how much better designed the Ferrari customer teams' chassis and aero are. Romain touched upon this too regarding how he had a great lap today, that their car behaves well on an aero track. What do we have for the Merc teams? Williams lost in the woods? Force India with a tiny budget? Haas has lots of experience in industry and racing before F1 and i bet that plays a huge part in quality aero.

Completely agree. The Haas is eerily reminiscent of the SF70H, which was strong last year in Austria.

[atanatizante]

IMO Ferrari power is ahead this year.

Andy Cowell agrees with you.

Andy Cowell agrees only that Ferrari has the upper hand in Q3 PU mode, that`s why they are so good on qualy this year.
What he doesn`t tell you (but it`s obvious to see) is the fact that Merc PU is more efficient than his Ferrari counterpart, for Kimi almost always says he must spare fuel during the race and even Bottas told us that in Canada press conference after the race Vettel said him that he was always doing lift and coast in the race ...
And last but not least, since France, their 2.1 spec is also better in traction out of the slow corners than Ferrari ...

Now regarding their side pods upgrade, I think that with their new radiator air intake they were doing this in order to increase the undercut hence more or faster airflow towards the diffuser. This way they increased DF, as Bottas said about the car`s rear end stability improvement ...
And in addition, that lower radiator air intake edge could also make some additional DF in that area (near the CoG and CoP), but maybe Vanja#66 could expand this better than me ...

[DinkLv]

Some photos from today
https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... idepod.jpg

https://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... detail.jpg

https://cdn-2.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... boards.jpg

https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... boards.jpg

https://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... detail.jpg

Is there a possibility that Mercedes' new sidepod inlet design is intended to integrate a more robust leading edge? In the comparison it is clear that the side leading edge is postponed while the lower edge is more sharp. I think it is an adaptation for a wider envelope or for a new knowledge in terms of tyre wake. In my own Formula Student experiences, sharp and round leading edges of the sidepod inlets have apparent differences flow characteristics as shown, which is one possible reason Mercedes introduce the new sidepod design.

[zioture]

Full Gallery here
http://www.newsf1.it/foto-formula-1-gp- ... bull-ring/

[F1Krof]

I wonder what is making the W-09 so hard to follow the other cars, compared to Red Bull & especially Ferrari, they seem to have a bad time and cannot follow other cars?

Is it he rake maybe? Or is the tires? I saw Lewis getting very close to Vettel within 4 tenths, then drop to 8.5 within just a corner? This car is fast on clean air but as Lewis himself said "...crap cars" > which I think he meant for his own car (mostly). Where lies the problem?

[ScrewCaptain27]

I wonder what is making the W-09 so hard to follow the other cars, compared to Red Bull & especially Ferrari, they seem to have a bad time and cannot follow other cars?

Is it he rake maybe? Or is the tires? I saw Lewis getting very close to Vettel within 4 tenths, then drop to 8.5 within just a corner? This car is fast on clean air but as Lewis himself said "...crap cars" > which I think he meant for his own car (mostly). Where lies the problem?

That’s simply the bodywork being very sensitive to dirty air due to its complexity. This car was designed with the expectation to mostly run at the front, not race in a pack of other cars as often.

[Sierra117]

It's really the front wing that does most of the damage. Reducing the complexity will definitely help. I say let's go back to cars having no front wings and allowing trick suspensions to manage the loss of aero at the front. That way you have traction + ability to follow!

[turbof1]

It's really the front wing that does most of the damage. Reducing the complexity will definitely help. I say let's go back to cars having no front wings and allowing trick suspensions to manage the loss of aero at the front. That way you have traction + ability to follow!

But that would probably just make the trick suspension aerodynamically sensitive (if that is what you mean).

Anyway:

Some photos from today
https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... idepod.jpg

https://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... detail.jpg

https://cdn-2.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... boards.jpg

https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... boards.jpg

https://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... detail.jpg

Is there a possibility that Mercedes' new sidepod inlet design is intended to integrate a more robust leading edge? In the comparison it is clear that the side leading edge is postponed while the lower edge is more sharp. I think it is an adaptation for a wider envelope or for a new knowledge in terms of tyre wake. In my own Formula Student experiences, sharp and round leading edges of the sidepod inlets have apparent differences flow characteristics as shown, which is one possible reason Mercedes introduce the new sidepod design.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhChPWYWAAADkVU.jpg
https://cdn-2.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... boards.jpg

Very much possible. The area has become the number 1 development area for flow dictation behind the front tyre (with front wing development deep in diminishing returns). These changes will dictate the flow above and under the inlet, perhaps reducing lift (negative downforce) and drag.

[Sierra117]

It's really the front wing that does most of the damage. Reducing the complexity will definitely help. I say let's go back to cars having no front wings and allowing trick suspensions to manage the loss of aero at the front. That way you have traction + ability to follow!

But that would probably just make the trick suspension aerodynamically sensitive (if that is what you mean).

Sorry I mean, to compensate for not having a FW. No FW means no traction for the front wheels, but active suspension may be able to negate that to SOME effect by adjusting ride height and all on the fly. Like way back on the Williams. Dunno I'm not a pro at this stuff so just throwing ideas out xD

[wesley123]

I wonder what is making the W-09 so hard to follow the other cars, compared to Red Bull & especially Ferrari, they seem to have a bad time and cannot follow other cars?

I don't believe that is actually the case, in Mexico and Brazil they have shown perfectly well that that isn't the case.

The thing that I personally see more as a problem is traction and the tires. You simply can't go for a overtake if you lose time out of the corner, because while the straights in, for example, Austria are reasonably long, they aren't long enough to make up that time.

[Juzh]

I wonder what is making the W-09 so hard to follow the other cars, compared to Red Bull & especially Ferrari, they seem to have a bad time and cannot follow other cars?

I don't believe that is actually the case, in Mexico and Brazil they have shown perfectly well that that isn't the case.

The thing that I personally see more as a problem is traction and the tires. You simply can't go for a overtake if you lose time out of the corner, because while the straights in, for example, Austria are reasonably long, they aren't long enough to make up that time.

Main problem is a slow corner leading onto medium long straight, with another slow corner after that leading onto another medium long straight. Coming out of a slow corner if you're 0.5s earlier on the throttle, with the power of current F1 cars, you gain like 3-4 car lenghts easily. You can run in circles all day every day and never be able to catch up a car ahead.
Sometimes even a very long straight is not enough. Look at canada, cars are literally inches apart out of the hairpin, only for the car ahead to gain 100m just by being a few tenths earlier on the throttle.

This was less of a problem with the V8s because they had no power at all and car would hit drag limit very early on the straight.

[CLKGTR]

Cars rapidly gaining advantage on Canada straight after being so close in the hairpin has more to do with the fact that with constant time difference, distance between the cars increases with speed, which is why it always look like they are 'catching up' on braking. Many TV pundits don't understand this, though