Autonomous Cars

Breaking news, useful data or technical highlights or vehicles that are not meant to race. You can post commercial vehicle news or developments here.
Please post topics on racing variants in "other racing categories".
Greg Locock
Greg Locock
235
Joined: 30 Jun 2012, 00:48

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

Here's the Dog ate my Homework retrospective justification for the sorry performance of the Mustang. Siemens must be seething.

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/truth-au ... rove-wall/

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE SELF-DRIVING MUSTANG THAT ‘DROVE INTO A WALL’
We just had a ride in it; here's what we found out
YOU COULD say that the autonomous 1965 Ford Mustang at the Goodwood Festival of Speed had a bit of a shocker. In fact, a number of websites have, after the self-driving system developed by Cranfield University, in collaboration with Siemens, appeared to dart towards the straw bales on at least one of its runs.

And it did the same when we took a ride in it up the hillclimb earlier today. So yes, the system is… less than perfect, shall we say.

There are a number of things that should be known about the car before it’s described as a complete failure, though.

The power steering broke

The ’65 Mustang came with optional power steering, and the autonomous pony car is one that had it installed. Unfortunately for the Cranfield team, they told us, a power steering pipe sprang a leak before the afternoon Goodwood run on Thursday, resulting in sudden changes in pressure. The software had to try and fight that, and clearly didn’t do a great job of it, so Dr James Cranfield, who was sitting behind in the driver’s seat, had to make sudden corrections.

It was designed to be wayward

We were baffled when told that the car was programmed to weave along the course. Why? Because the TV production guys thought it would look better on camera if we could see the steering wheel moving on its own. The trouble with this, which was obvious to almost everyone after the first run (and arguably should have been obvious long before that), was that it just made it look like the Mustang couldn’t go in a straight line.

Did they regret this strategy? Well, that’s a moot point once the runs are under way, apparently, as changing the programming last minute would have simply added more uncertainty and potential issues.

It was programmed in a very short amount of time

Six weeks. That’s how long it took the person in charge of the software was given to program it. He spent a lot of time doing it after hours. And he was a masters student, not a professor.

It wasn’t using radar or lidar

Although radar sensors are installed on the car, these were switched off for the Goodwood run as they were seen as unnecessary. The technical lead believes that another car crashing and punching a hole in a straw bale could have altered the environment and confused the system.

Instead, it used two GPS antennas — one front, one rear -— and the signal was known to drop out under tree cover around the flint wall section. To compensate, the car used an “inertial navigation unit” — a combination of accelerometers and gyroscopes. By recording previous movement, these are designed to help work out where the car is and where it should be going in the future.

The most advanced autonomous cars have much more sophisticated laser scanning, radar and camera technology to ‘see’ their path in real time. Inevitably these would have helped the car navigate its way, but again… six weeks.

The TV feed could have been a factor

The ‘stang was fitted with a live feed camera for the TV crews and a whacking great antenna to transmit the signal from the car. This apparently stopped working on Friday and was fixed, then the signal “turned up to 11”, according to the Cranfield guys. As we stepped out of the car, following our definitely-less-than-perfect ride up the hill, they had a lightbulb moment— was it interfering with their own signal? To find out they vowed to get the feed killed for their second run of the day.

It was never meant to be perfect

This was a project designed to get young people excited about engineering and software design. We have a skills shortage in this area and anything that can be done to enthuse young people into science should be encouraged.

This may not have been the best way to advertise this career path but it’s important to remember that they didn’t set out to build a perfect autonomous car; they just wanted to get people excited about the technology. And it got us talking. Maybe give them a break?


No I won't give them a break. It was pathetic.

LM10
LM10
121
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

strad wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 19:57
No comments about the Mustang wandering all over and almost running off the road and or almost hitting the hay bales???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NsrijKBbK8
This is more like it :) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtVbch-02Fs

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

LM10 wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 14:45
strad wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 19:57
No comments about the Mustang wandering all over and almost running off the road and or almost hitting the hay bales???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NsrijKBbK8
This is more like it :) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtVbch-02Fs
Wow didn´t know Robocars are at that point, thanks for sharing =D> =D>

User avatar
Big Tea
99
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

Perspective guys. You should have seen my son the first time he rode a cycle. Now he is one of the (very) few people i will ride pillion with
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

User avatar
henry
324
Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 16:37
LM10 wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 14:45
strad wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 19:57
No comments about the Mustang wandering all over and almost running off the road and or almost hitting the hay bales???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NsrijKBbK8
This is more like it :) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtVbch-02Fs
Wow didn´t know Robocars are at that point, thanks for sharing =D> =D>
Assuming that’s a real time video that run took a little over 70 seconds. The ID.R took 45seconds or so. 60mph vs 90mph.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

may not be race car times but 1000% better.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

AJI
AJI
27
Joined: 22 Dec 2015, 09:08

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

strad wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 19:41
may not be race car times but 1000% better.
Here's a blast from the past strad.


User avatar
strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

not bad... not bad at all. But I'd still rather do it myself. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

AJI
AJI
27
Joined: 22 Dec 2015, 09:08

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

strad wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 03:18
not bad... not bad at all. But I'd still rather do it myself. :wink:
I'm with you, but that was what an AV could do a decade ago. Why that mustang was displayed at Goodwood is beyond me...

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

henry wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 18:59
Andres125sx wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 16:37
LM10 wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 14:45


This is more like it :) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtVbch-02Fs
Wow didn´t know Robocars are at that point, thanks for sharing =D> =D>
Assuming that’s a real time video that run took a little over 70 seconds. The ID.R took 45seconds or so. 60mph vs 90mph.
At first public appearance of first autonomous racing car ever, timelap is irrelevant

User avatar
henry
324
Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 08:55
henry wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 18:59
Andres125sx wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 16:37


Wow didn´t know Robocars are at that point, thanks for sharing =D> =D>
Assuming that’s a real time video that run took a little over 70 seconds. The ID.R took 45seconds or so. 60mph vs 90mph.
At first public appearance of first autonomous racing car ever, timelap is irrelevant
In my mind the relevance is not the absolute times but that it establishes that the Roborace car wasn’t picking its way up at walking pace,
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

AJI
AJI
27
Joined: 22 Dec 2015, 09:08

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

henry wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 09:44
Andres125sx wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 08:55
henry wrote:
17 Jul 2018, 18:59


Assuming that’s a real time video that run took a little over 70 seconds. The ID.R took 45seconds or so. 60mph vs 90mph.
At first public appearance of first autonomous racing car ever, timelap is irrelevant
In my mind the relevance is not the absolute times but that it establishes that the Roborace car wasn’t picking its way up at walking pace,
Did the car get a practice lap, or is it just going for it on a single lap.
That 10 year old autonomous golf video I posted above would have set a quick time, but it needs a lap to learn the course first.

User avatar
henry
324
Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

AJI wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 11:13
henry wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 09:44
Andres125sx wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 08:55


At first public appearance of first autonomous racing car ever, timelap is irrelevant
In my mind the relevance is not the absolute times but that it establishes that the Roborace car wasn’t picking its way up at walking pace,
Did the car get a practice lap, or is it just going for it on a single lap.
That 10 year old autonomous golf video I posted above would have set a quick time, but it needs a lap to learn the course first.
I believe it had a few laps practice and did demonstration runs more than once during the event.

I don’t know what objective they had, it was certainly taking a conservative line, up the middle of the road.

There was an Audi A7 2 or 3 years ago that used rather more “racing” lines, but it was on a wide open race track.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

AJI
AJI
27
Joined: 22 Dec 2015, 09:08

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

henry wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 11:48
...I believe it had a few laps practice and did demonstration runs more than once during the event.

I don’t know what objective they had, it was certainly taking a conservative line, up the middle of the road.

There was an Audi A7 2 or 3 years ago that used rather more “racing” lines, but it was on a wide open race track.
There are multiple AV demonstrations from years ago that are far superior to that roborace run.
I'm not sure what they're trying to display, but the Mustang run almost felt like it was staged by a pro-human intelligence consortium..?

User avatar
rscsr
51
Joined: 19 Feb 2012, 13:02
Location: Austria

Re: Autonomous Cars

Post

AJI wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 12:13
henry wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 11:48
...I believe it had a few laps practice and did demonstration runs more than once during the event.

I don’t know what objective they had, it was certainly taking a conservative line, up the middle of the road.

There was an Audi A7 2 or 3 years ago that used rather more “racing” lines, but it was on a wide open race track.
There are multiple AV demonstrations from years ago that are far superior to that roborace run.
I'm not sure what they're trying to display, but the Mustang run almost felt like it was staged by a pro-human intelligence consortium..?
The other AV demonstrations (mainly form Audi) I've seen have basically been just replays from human input.
These otoh seem to be properly autonomous, kinda figuring out your way around the track on their own.