2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

[NathanOlder]

Pressure can do some strange things to teams and drivers alike. Last year we saw the red team fold in spectacular fashion. That will only add to the pressure this year. I think reliability will play a big part this season and so far its Merc suffering .

Merc have had the unreliability and the slower car on average yet they lead both titles. What happens if/when ferrari run in to reliability issues.

[Restomaniac]

to me ferraris reasoning on taking raikkonen in so early, was clear.
ferrari took a gamble on the rain coming in by the time kimi would have to change for new tyres anyway. but that got delayed and delayed as the rain never really came.
i think ferrari genuinely wanted the best for kimi, whilst still taking a gamble with his strategy. they took the safe way with vettel.
however, they were too late to admit that kimis strategy was not working and that was hurting vettel's strategy, but only a little.
i think they shat their pants when vettel started complaining about it. i think that's why jock clear felt specifically he had to give the order to kimi.

kimi would've most likely retained his lead if everyone would've had to change to inters, kimi included ofcourse.

very interesting that hamilton didn't get penalized from crossing the pit lane entry and getting back on the race track. rules are clear on it and people have been penalized for much less obvious infractions of that line.
maybe the stewards were too scared to admit their fault? i could understand if they wanted to avoid a shitstorm from penalizing him after the race. but it doesn't make it right.

what ultimately caused both williams' and alonso to dnf? i missed those.

Raikkonen seems to be in ‘screw it’ mode. Probably because he knows he is off.

The stewards have shown on more than 1 occasion that the don’t want to get involved in the WDC. This is just the lastest chapter.

[Wynters]

I can understand your pain, but as we have witnessed in a spectacular way today anything can happen. Instead of Vettel extending his lead we saw Hamilton luckily clinging it with a 17 points gap, making it his second lucky win this year.

I feel bad for Vettel. I don’t know if it was the pressure. It’s a bit of a weird situation because in Qualifying he’s been exceptional and didn’t really show nervous manners this year. However, in the races he surely needs to shut off the mistakes.

It’s halftime yet and there still are many races. Ferrari has a very competitive car. The team should keep on doing what they have done until now. Heads down and focus, especially Vettel.

I feel terrible for Vettel. I think today's race meant so much to him (far more than extending the lead in the WDC) and it was hard to watch him sitting in the gravel and hear him on the radio.

Arguably, nothing lucky about Hamilton's win though. He was fast all afternoon and Mercedes played the right cards when rain was predicted. They made an educated play for a likely scenario and it paid off. Yes, Vettel going off made a big difference, but is that luck? Or an understandable mistake under extremely tricky conditions and growing pressure from behind?

Overall, even though today is a bit of a gut punch for Ferrari and their fans, I'm very confident of Vettel and Ferrari winning both WDC and WCC. Their technical edge appears to be significant and I can't see that changing in the near future.

[poolboy67]

They pitted RAI to keep him in Front of HAM. They didn't pit VET to cover the rain risk and to make it a secure one stop if had stayed dry. They should have moved RAI imediately out of the way. Made absolutely no sense.
HAM was incoming Very fast on the US during mixed conditions. If VET would not have binned it, HAM might still have won.

i don't think they were pitting raikkonen early to hold hamilton back, because merc could've responded by taking hamilton in when he caught up with raikkonen, making him fastest of all.
in fact, hamilton was getting a tow from raikkonen which made his chances and pace even better. ferrari must've known that was going to happen if their plan was to hold hamilton back, because raikkonen was faster on fresher tyres.
furthermore that tactic is mostly just used when the other car (in this case raikkonen) hasn't pitted yet. it's used to hold back the driver who has conciderably better pace than the driver the team wants to protect (in this case vettel). but vettel at that point was still faster than hamilton i think.
to pit raikkonen early in order to hold back hamilton, would've been absolutely bonkers from ferrari, as raikkonen dropped behind verstappen after his pit stop, whom hamilton would also have to overtake along with bottas and iirc hamilton was over 20 seconds behind vettel.
why settle for much less points for the team, if you're only going to give a very minimum advantage to your other driver?

ferrari was hoping the rain would come by the time raikkonen would have to change tyres again.

[Unc1eM0nty]

. Instead of Vettel extending his lead we saw Hamilton luckily clinging it with a 17 points gap, making it his second lucky win this year.

Lucky !

A mechanical wrecks his qualifying, he starts from 14th on the grid and drags his car through the field to finish first and you call this lucky ?

He's had many easy wins in the past with a dominant which you might describe as lucky, this was Not one of them. It was a great drive - at least have the humility to give it some respect.

Thinking of you at this difficult time

[Shrieker]

What’s the official explanation on why Hamilton wasn’t penalized for an action which clearly needs to be penalized?

Show me in the rules the penalty to be handed out for Hamilton's transgression. It literally says "doing this is prohibited" but does not define a penalty. But for example the white line at the pit exit is clearly defined, both as a transgression and its consequent penalty.

23.3 Leaving the pit lane and re-joining the track must be done without endangering or hindering
other participants. It is strictly forbidden to cross the white line at the pit exit with any part of
a car when leaving the pits.
Any driver crossing the white line at the pit exit during practice will be given a three grid place
penalty or, during the race, a penalty under Article 15.3(a) will apply

[LM10]

. Instead of Vettel extending his lead we saw Hamilton luckily clinging it with a 17 points gap, making it his second lucky win this year.

Lucky !

A mechanical wrecks his qualifying, he starts from 14th on the grid and drags his car through the field to finish first and you call this lucky ?

He's had many easy wins in the past with a dominant which you might describe as lucky, this was Not one of them. It was a great drive - at least have the humility to give it some respect.

Thinking of you at this difficult time

Finishing 6th at least when you’re in a Ferrari or Mercedes is the absolute minimum this year. Fighting through field is ridiculously easy. It’s like F1 vs. F2. There is no spectacular racecraft whatsoever going on when Hamilton passes the others on his way upfront.

I didn’t mean that his race win was lucky (even though I believe he would have not won with Vettel on track), but the lucky thing was that Vettel had a DNF and Hamilton is now leading with 17 points. Otherwise even if he had won and Vettel had finished 2nd he would have not been leading the WDC now.

[Restomaniac]

. Instead of Vettel extending his lead we saw Hamilton luckily clinging it with a 17 points gap, making it his second lucky win this year.

Lucky !

A mechanical wrecks his qualifying, he starts from 14th on the grid and drags his car through the field to finish first and you call this lucky ?

He's had many easy wins in the past with a dominant which you might describe as lucky, this was Not one of them. It was a great drive - at least have the humility to give it some respect.

Thinking of you at this difficult time

Finishing 6th at least when you’re in a Ferrari or Mercedes is the absolute minimum this year. Fighting through field is ridiculously easy. It’s like F1 vs. F2. There is no spectacular racecraft whatsoever going on when Hamilton passes the others on his way upfront.

I didn’t mean that his race win was lucky (even though I believe he would have not won with Vettel on track), but the lucky thing was that Vettel had a DNF and Hamilton is now leading with 17 points. Otherwise even if he had won and Vettel had finished 2nd he would have not been leading the WDC now.

Remind me did Vettel have a retirement? Or did he fail as an F1 driver in the wet by crashing? Remeber that Hamilton was eating Bottas and Raikkonen on the timing screens but not Vettel. It strikes me that Vettel was driving the wheels off that car way past the tyres because he knew what was coming.

It not Hamilton’s fault that he is known as a great wet driver and Vettel is not. If you want to look anywhere as to why Hamilton is now so far in front you need to look no further than the red car with number 5 on it.

[LM10]

What’s the official explanation on why Hamilton wasn’t penalized for an action which clearly needs to be penalized?

Show me in the rules the penalty to be handed out for Hamilton's transgression. It literally says "doing this is prohibited" but does not define a penalty. But for example the white line at the pit exit is clearly defined, both as a transgression and its consequent penalty.

It’s officially prohibited, but there are no official consequences you mean? What’s the sense behind that? Every driver would do it then, if the only thing happening them afterwards would be Charlie Whiting telling them how much of a bad boy they were.

[Shrieker]

If the penalty is not clearly defined, and hence a driver not penalized, it's the fault of the rule maker, and no one else's.

By the way if I'm wrong, please correct me guys.

This is the rule:

d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards), the crossing, in any direction, of the line separating the pit entry and the track by a car entering the pit lane is prohibited.

Where can we find the corresponding penalty ? Is it only the track notes that have previously been mentioned in this thread ?

[poolboy67]

What’s the official explanation on why Hamilton wasn’t penalized for an action which clearly needs to be penalized?

because "there was a safety car on track, miscommunication with the team and because his return on the track didn't cause danger to other cars"

so absolute bullshit. rules are rules damn it.

iirc one of the reasons to why it's prohibited to return to the track from pit lane entry, is to hold the teams from making a fake entry in order to throw other teams off.
that besides the obvious safety reasons.

[LM10]

Lucky !

A mechanical wrecks his qualifying, he starts from 14th on the grid and drags his car through the field to finish first and you call this lucky ?

He's had many easy wins in the past with a dominant which you might describe as lucky, this was Not one of them. It was a great drive - at least have the humility to give it some respect.

Thinking of you at this difficult time

Finishing 6th at least when you’re in a Ferrari or Mercedes is the absolute minimum this year. Fighting through field is ridiculously easy. It’s like F1 vs. F2. There is no spectacular racecraft whatsoever going on when Hamilton passes the others on his way upfront.

I didn’t mean that his race win was lucky (even though I believe he would have not won with Vettel on track), but the lucky thing was that Vettel had a DNF and Hamilton is now leading with 17 points. Otherwise even if he had won and Vettel had finished 2nd he would have not been leading the WDC now.

Remind me did Vettel have a retirement? Or did he fail as an F1 driver in the wet by crashing?

It not Hamilton’s fault that he is known as a great wet driver and Vettel is not. If you want to look anywhere as to why Hamilton is now so far in front you need to look no further than the red car with number 5 on it.

Vettel failing as a driver is still luck for Hamilton. It doesn’t change anything on Hamilton side wether Vettel had a mechanical retirement or crashed. What matters is that his main rival got a DNF and this is as lucky as it can get for Lewis.

[LionKing]

If the penalty is not clearly defined, and hence a driver not penalized, it's the fault of the rule maker, and no one else's.

Do they specify the penalties for speeding in the pit lane? Dangerous release, impeding during quali etc?

There are at least 2 recent precedents with the same offense where Kimi and Wehrlein were both given 5 sec penalties.

[Shrieker]

What’s the official explanation on why Hamilton wasn’t penalized for an action which clearly needs to be penalized?

because "there was a safety car on track, miscommunication with the team and because his return on the track didn't cause danger to other cars"

so absolute bullshit. rules are rules damn it.

I agree with you that rules should be rules. But I can't find the penalty that's supposed to be handed out in such an infringement lol

[Restomaniac]

Finishing 6th at least when you’re in a Ferrari or Mercedes is the absolute minimum this year. Fighting through field is ridiculously easy. It’s like F1 vs. F2. There is no spectacular racecraft whatsoever going on when Hamilton passes the others on his way upfront.

I didn’t mean that his race win was lucky (even though I believe he would have not won with Vettel on track), but the lucky thing was that Vettel had a DNF and Hamilton is now leading with 17 points. Otherwise even if he had won and Vettel had finished 2nd he would have not been leading the WDC now.

Remind me did Vettel have a retirement? Or did he fail as an F1 driver in the wet by crashing?

It not Hamilton’s fault that he is known as a great wet driver and Vettel is not. If you want to look anywhere as to why Hamilton is now so far in front you need to look no further than the red car with number 5 on it.

Vettel failing as a driver is still luck for Hamilton. It doesn’t change anything on Hamilton side wether Vettel had a mechanical retirement or crashed. What matters is that his main rival got a DNF and this is as lucky as it can get for Lewis.

No sorry. If Vettel had retired due to a mechanical that’s lucky. Today however Vettel scored no points because he ran out of skill. No Hamiltons fault that he is just better in the wet forcing Vettel to make a mistake.