Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Tommy Cookers]

the wastegate is not a diverter
the turbine has same very high rpm as the compressor - what is the turbine's effect ? (wastegate-open)
the exhaust is not a smooth flow - there's a lowish mean velocity carrying sonic velocity 'pulses' in both directions

who knows what's going on when the wastegate is open ?
and tbh - who cares ?

isn't Prof.Limebeer etc an applied mathematician not a designer of compounded engines ?
given naïve 2014 design predictions and data he presumably made a good job of predicting the best modes of engine use

[saviour stivala]

according to the rules waste gate/s need have it's own dedicated exhaust pipe which means it is against the rules to vent/bypass waste gates exhaust gasses through the scroll housing.

Erm, if you close the wastegate thats exactly what happens!!! All the gas goes through the turbine. Is it now illegal to close the wastegate?

Yes if you close the waste gates that's exactly what happens, all the gases goes through the turbine scroll and through the turbine scroll dedicated exhaust tailpipe as per the rules, and no that is not illegal. what is illegal is for scroll turbine exhaust gases to go out of waste gates dedicated exhaust tailpipes, or for waste gates exhaust gases to go out of dedicated exhaust turbine scroll dedicated exhaust tailpipe.

[digitalrurouni]

Mark Hughes: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/repo ... rix-report

Ferrari has been doing great work on its power unit, giving it a clear advantage. There are suggestions that its twin battery arrangement might have allowed a recent breakthrough in allowing it to simultaneously deploy and harvest. So, for example, one battery could be deploying to the MGUk while the MGUh is harvesting for the other battery.

The recent gains, whatever they are, have been spectacular and apply just as much to the spec 1 engine still in Räikkönen’s car as to the spec 2 units in everyone else’s.

I read that too. Fantastic idea! Way to go Ferrari!

[subcritical71]

Mark Hughes: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/repo ... rix-report

Ferrari has been doing great work on its power unit, giving it a clear advantage. There are suggestions that its twin battery arrangement might have allowed a recent breakthrough in allowing it to simultaneously deploy and harvest. So, for example, one battery could be deploying to the MGUk while the MGUh is harvesting for the other battery.

The recent gains, whatever they are, have been spectacular and apply just as much to the spec 1 engine still in Räikkönen’s car as to the spec 2 units in everyone else’s.

I read that too. Fantastic idea! Way to go Ferrari!

Obviously a step in the right direction. I remember reading that it was still one battery but treated as two virtual batteries, is there any new information on their setup?

[henry]

Mark Hughes: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/repo ... rix-report

Ferrari has been doing great work on its power unit, giving it a clear advantage. There are suggestions that its twin battery arrangement might have allowed a recent breakthrough in allowing it to simultaneously deploy and harvest. So, for example, one battery could be deploying to the MGUk while the MGUh is harvesting for the other battery.

The recent gains, whatever they are, have been spectacular and apply just as much to the spec 1 engine still in Räikkönen’s car as to the spec 2 units in everyone else’s.

This push me pull you idea doesn’t sound very feasible. All the ES flow goes through a single sensor. So the only way I can think of doing this is by interleaving the flows in time. If you interleave you have tonincrease the instantaneous power to get to the allowable 120kW continuous power, I’m not sure that could be done legally.

I also don’t see the advantage from an efficiency standpoint, unless it’s a cunning way to avoid going below the bottom SOC threshold.

[digitalrurouni]

So both the energy to harvest and deploy goes through the same ES sensor? I must have missed that.

[henry]

So both the energy to harvest and deploy goes through the same ES sensor? I must have missed that.

There are TWO sensors. One measures everything in and out of the ES, the other everything in and out of the MGU-K.

I have no idea how they manage the energy flow regulations with just those two. SOC seems relatively straightforward.

[digitalrurouni]

So both the energy to harvest and deploy goes through the same ES sensor? I must have missed that.

There are TWO sensors. One measures everything in and out of the ES, the other everything in and out of the MGU-K.

I have no idea how they manage the energy flow regulations with just those two. SOC seems relatively straightforward.

Ah ok thanks. On the same page now.

[nico5]

Mark Hughes: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/repo ... rix-report

Ferrari has been doing great work on its power unit, giving it a clear advantage. There are suggestions that its twin battery arrangement might have allowed a recent breakthrough in allowing it to simultaneously deploy and harvest. So, for example, one battery could be deploying to the MGUk while the MGUh is harvesting for the other battery.

The recent gains, whatever they are, have been spectacular and apply just as much to the spec 1 engine still in Räikkönen’s car as to the spec 2 units in everyone else’s.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but there is very little point in doing that. Teams have all the interest in the world to send energy from H to K, especially in qualifying, due to the 4MJ limit. Not saying it can't be useful in any circumstance, but make for any power gain. At the end of the day the trick is to run free load as long as you can. So maybe they could actually be feeding both H and K simultaneously, but I guess everyone is.

[apexcontrol]

Yeah hmm what the heck is going on with pu of ferrari ...i realy need to know

How on earth without pu change they get so much extra poweroutput.


There must be something we have overlook. Is it maybe to obvious ?

How and when can get so much power from the h

Can some one explain the harvesting part of the h .....

[gruntguru]

Mark Hughes: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/repo ... rix-report

Ferrari has been doing great work on its power unit, giving it a clear advantage. There are suggestions that its twin battery arrangement might have allowed a recent breakthrough in allowing it to simultaneously deploy and harvest. So, for example, one battery could be deploying to the MGUk while the MGUh is harvesting for the other battery.

Can anyone suggest why they would want to do this? If the car is harvesting and deploying simultaneously, it is best to send the energy direct eg H>K or K>H because those flows are (energy) unlimited whereas any energy sent ES>K or K>ES is subject to a "per lap" limit.

[subcritical71]

Yeah hmm what the heck is going on with pu of ferrari ...i realy need to know

How on earth without pu change they get so much extra poweroutput.


There must be something we have overlook. Is it maybe to obvious ?

How and when can get so much power from the h

Can some one explain the harvesting part of the h .....

Not sure what exactly your looking for but check out the Honda article if you haven’t already, especially the part about Extra Harvest. viewtopic.php?p=733944#p733944

[subcritical71]

Mark Hughes: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/repo ... rix-report

Ferrari has been doing great work on its power unit, giving it a clear advantage. There are suggestions that its twin battery arrangement might have allowed a recent breakthrough in allowing it to simultaneously deploy and harvest. So, for example, one battery could be deploying to the MGUk while the MGUh is harvesting for the other battery.

Can anyone suggest why they would want to do this? If the car is harvesting and deploying simultaneously, it is best to send the energy direct eg H>K or K>H because those flows are (energy) unlimited whereas any energy sent ES>K or K>ES is subject to a "per lap" limit.

That’s where my thinking is (with you). Even if the H couldn’t supply enough, take the remaining balance from the ES. The only way it makes sense in my mind if they’ve unlocked something big in their interpretation of the rules that the others havent thought of.

[MtthsMlw]

This whole engine situation just keeps getting weirder.. In the recent episode of Formel Schmidt (AMuS) Michael Schmidt said the following things after talking with Andy Cowell:
- the jump in performance (supposedly 38hp) came in Austria
- Only Ferrari gained this much performance not Sauber and Haas
- Merc's data analysis shows that they are equal on power until 250km/h with Ferrari, after that Ferrari pulls away drastically

So what could it be?
Firstly this is not about sustaining power longer via a more efficient MGU-H or something like that it's about peak performance, which is limited to 120kw on the electrical side, so you could assume that it's ICE related.
But Ferrari has to provide the exact same PU to their customers who are not profiting from the hp gain since Austria. Only exception is Fuel and Oil.
I don't think better fuel could lead to an improvement like that and the improvement would not only occur on the straights near maximum speed.
I don't think we're back to oil burning either.

Clearly we're missing something or the information provided by the journalists is false. In my mind there is still the option that it's an f-duct like aero thing but something like that should have been spotted already or it's much more complicated and unlike anything else we've ever seen. Maybe they're actually cheating and got away unnoticed through the FIA investigation around the Monaco GP.
This whole situation just doesn't make sense.

[RZS10]

Didn't Vettel have a weird acceleration boost on the China straight in quali?

He was behind Kimi and had the worse corner exit but at some point accelerated like crazy to get pole.

the tinfoil hat enthusiast in me wonders: what if that was already an earlier form of the hard to explain straight line performance boost which was related to their 'battery trick' which they lost after the FIA interfered and they found a way to circumvent the FIA measurements (again?)