Spectacle not spectacular anymore?

[kptaylor]

After watching this past race I have to wonder if F1 is really competitive anymore given the disparity between the top three, the midfield and the back markers. Throw in fragile tires that need constant care and the races don't appear very exciting.

Not taking anything away from HAM's win and MB's strategy calls, but are engine/gearbox/mistake penalties really that bad anymore? Both HAM and RIC made pretty easy work getting from the back up to 5th/6th place. The back markers and the midfield guys just let them past. Did HAM even have to pass anyone in anger the whole race? Getting up to 5th was easy and then perfectly timed strategy, safety cars, etc. allowed him to take the lead with no real overtaking. Same thing with RIC. Pretty easy run up through the field with no real overtaking needed. People were running their own races but know they can't compete so they just don't. (With the exception being ALO fighting RIC a bit since he was in his own "real" midfield fight. I constantly heard "protecting their tires" and "different strategy".

Not sure if I'm interpreting this incorrectly, but the disparity between the top three, the midfield and the back markers makes the spectacle not so spectacular anymore. Calling people tremendous drivers when they can easily get through the majority of the field with no real resistance takes away from truly seeing their abilities. I would have loved to have seen both HAM and RIC battle their way through the field rather than just basically being pointed by.

What will Liberty be doing to address this? 2021 PU regs (doubtful), aero changes (teams don't think so), expense cap? What does everyone here think can be done?

[ME4ME]

You hit the nail on its head. I was bothered with exactly the same things.
Drivers coming through the field like it's nothing... It's been going on for a while now, but in Germany it was especially frustrating given how over-effective the DRS was and how midfield cars get out of their way so not to lose any time. It's understandable but not enjoyable. The entire issue can be traced back to too great performance differences.

Personally I don't mind the tyres, actually I'd like them to degrade even quicker so we get to see more pit stops and a greater variety of strategies.

[roon]

After watching this past race...

Perhaps watch more. Regardless, if you want vehicle performance parity there are numerous other series. Stock car, indy, formula ford and other feeder series. F1, as a prototype non-spec series, is not driver centered nor has it ever been.

As I've said in other threads: you are a TV viewer watching cars perform the exact same moves 70 times in a row for nearly two hours. What do you expect. That is gonna be boring even if you legislate-in Mad Max moments. Motorsport spectacle started, and somewhat remains, going to a track, sitting on the grass or stands, with food, others, and booze, watching a small percentage of the track, with nary a close follow or pass ever visible. Which means it was never fan-centric, it was competitor-centric. It was fans going to watch other people race. Which is what the competition is. Which the fan has nothing to do with. Because you are... a spectator.

[strad]

After watching this past race I have to wonder if F1 is really competitive anymore given the disparity between the top three, the midfield and the back markers. Throw in fragile tires that need constant care and the races don't appear very exciting.

Agree
Same point I have been on about for quite some time now.

[TAG]

Did you watch Toyota's Le Mans win last month?

[ME4ME]

Perhaps watch more. Regardless, if you want vehicle performance parity there are numerous other series. Stock car, indy, formula ford and other feeder series. F1, as a prototype non-spec series, is not driver centered nor has it ever been.

As I've said in other threads: you are a TV viewer watching cars perform the exact same moves 70 times in a row for nearly two hours. What do you expect. That is gonna be boring even if you legislate-in Mad Max moments. Motorsport spectacle started, and somewhat remains, going to a track, sitting on the grass or stands, with food, others, and booze, watching a small percentage of the track, with nary a close follow or pass ever visible. Which means it was never fan-centric, it was competitor-centric. It was fans going to watch other people race. Which is what the competition is. Which the fan has nothing to do with. Because you are... a spectator.

Hey man thats pretty poor attitude. What do you know about how long Kptaylor has been watching F1? Or anyone else for that matter.

The "If you don't like it, don't watch it" mantra is getting old. If you're annoyed by people complaining, than by the same logic you should get out of this thread and leave this place alone. Also you're contradicting yourself.

F1 has been better and can be better than it currently is.

[roon]

Perhaps watch more. Regardless, if you want vehicle performance parity there are numerous other series. Stock car, indy, formula ford and other feeder series. F1, as a prototype non-spec series, is not driver centered nor has it ever been.

As I've said in other threads: you are a TV viewer watching cars perform the exact same moves 70 times in a row for nearly two hours. What do you expect. That is gonna be boring even if you legislate-in Mad Max moments. Motorsport spectacle started, and somewhat remains, going to a track, sitting on the grass or stands, with food, others, and booze, watching a small percentage of the track, with nary a close follow or pass ever visible. Which means it was never fan-centric, it was competitor-centric. It was fans going to watch other people race. Which is what the competition is. Which the fan has nothing to do with. Because you are... a spectator.

Hey man thats pretty poor attitude. What do you know about how long Kptaylor has been watching F1? Or anyone else for that matter.

The "If you don't like it, don't watch it" mantra is getting old. If you're annoyed by people complaining, than by the same logic you should get out of this thread and leave this place alone. Also you're contradicting yourself.

F1 has been better and can be better than it currently is.

Can you say what you read as a contradiction? Competitor =/= driver. It's a team sport with an emphasis upon engineering, logistics, and manufacturing. Driver pay is a small fraction of a team's operating budget. As I implied, when competitors got together to race, throughout the history of the sport, they were likely not concerned about how the seated crowd perceived them. Rather, their primary concern was succeeding within the competition. Competitor-centric. Not spectator-centric. It's not Eurovision/Dancing with the Whomever/(Nation's) Got Talent. (Yet.)

The title fight is pretty good this year.

[ME4ME]

Can you say what you read as a contradiction? Competitor =/= driver. It's a team sport with an emphasis upon engineering, logistics, and manufacturing. Driver pay is a small fraction of a team's operating budget. As I implied, when competitors got together to race, throughout the history of the sport, they were likely not concerned about how the seated crowd perceived them. Rather, their primary concern was succeeding within the competition. Competitor-centric. Not spectator-centric.

The title fight is pretty good this year.

I would argue that a driver is a competitor. Certainly historically the driver has been a major pillar within the sport. That's by definition what made Formula 1 a sport. Questionable if it still is, but whatever.

Also the title fight isn't the issue that's being discussed here, now is it.

[roon]

Yes, they are, along with their hundreds of teammates, including the other historical 'major pillars': engineers, directors, team bosses, strategists, etc.

[Just_a_fan]

Yay, Yanks moaning about F1.

You do know that motor sport is not about the "fans" don't you? Motor sport is about the competitor competing. In F1's case, the competitor is the team and the driver is but a part of the team.

F1 would occur without the fans - sure, the drivers et al would be paid less but they'd still compete.

The reality is that "the fans" provide three fifths of bugger-all to the sport. Advertising revenue is the big income stream and that is not aimed at the anoraks who can name every title winner back to 1950. It really isn't. The income stream is aimed at people who want the associated glamour in their product - Mercedes and Ferrari are in it to sell cars to middle aged women driving down town, and young bucks looking for a car that is still cool even though they have a young family in tow.

F1 doesn't care about us. Get over it and yourselves.

[Just_a_fan]

I would argue that a driver is a competitor. Certainly historically the driver has been a major pillar within the sport. That's by definition what made Formula 1 a sport.

Nope. The competitor always has been the team. The driver has always been an employee of the team. The best drivers get paid more because they help the team win, nothing more.

[ME4ME]

Yanks huh. Great that you generalize a bunch of people. You're wrong, too.

I'd argue that Formula 1 would be nothing without the fans... But whatever works in your mind.

Again, I find it funny that you guys come in here complaining about "the complainers" with statements like "get over yourself" ... well, right back at ya

[Just_a_fan]

Yanks huh. Great that you generalize a bunch of people. You're wrong, too.

I'd argue that Formula 1 would be nothing without the fans... But whatever works in your mind.

Again, I find it funny that you guys come in here complaining about "the complainers" with statements like "get over yourself" ... well, right back at ya

The OP's profile shows a US "address", hence the comment.

You can argue all you like about the importance of the fans but the reality is that the vast majority of motor sport occurs without paying fans watching. I've been to many events that are free to enter and one just pays for a burger and a drink from a third party vendor. The teams and their drivers are there because they like competing, nothing more.

Think about it - if you aren't paying the FIA/FOM/Liberty then how are you important? Sure, advertising, but that is all speculative anyway and much of it is aimed at the "not fans" who might have heard of a name in passing - that's why Hamilton is marketable. He's recognisable from news bulletins etc.

Really, you need to realise that you are absolutely irrelevant so far as F1 is concerned. No, really. You just don't matter. Neither do I.

[ME4ME]

The OP's profile shows a US "address", hence the comment.

You can argue all you like about the importance of the fans but the reality is that the vast majority of motor sport occurs without paying fans watching. I've been to many events that are free to enter and one just pays for a burger and a drink from a third party vendor. The teams and their drivers are there because they like competing, nothing more.

Think about it - if you aren't paying the FIA/FOM/Liberty then how are you important? Sure, advertising, but that is all speculative anyway and much of it is aimed at the "not fans" who might have heard of a name in passing - that's why Hamilton is marketable. He's recognisable from news bulletins etc.

Really, you need to realise that you are absolutely irrelevant so far as F1 is concerned. No, really. You just don't matter. Neither do I.

You're plain wrong as far as I'm concerned. You've got yet to realize a great deal yourself. More than I expected from you anyway. Lets respect and go back to the original poster's topic Spectacle not spectacular anymore? Feel free to drop a PM, because I'm done here.

[Just_a_fan]

It's a public forum. PM is for private discussion - hence the name. Discussion on this issue is public so far as I'm concerned.