2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

[Wynters]

Ok, can we then discuss Interlagos 2008? Where he overtook Hamilton in the rain indeed, with a Torro Rosso, but it nearly cost Hamilton the WDC and Hamilton was driving the better car that day. Luckily he overtook Glock in the last corner.

Christ. If you need to reach back a decade, into the refuelling era, to find an example of an occasion where one driver managed to finish ahead of another driver then I suggest your argument must be pretty desperate. Allow me to profer a different argument, using your same approach, I think you'll find it equally (if not more) compelling. "In 2010, in qualifying (the purest aspect of the sport) Hulkenberg was on Pole in a Williams, in Brazil. He was a full second faster than the next driver. In the race, everyone else was just lucky otherwise Hulk would've lapped them 50 times! This totally proves without any doubt that Hulkenberg is obviously the best driver of all time and if he was ever in a competitive car he'd only lose because of other teams cheating and FIA conspiracies! Vettel and Hamilton are scared of him and that's why he's not in their teams and that only proves how good he is!" /s

What's that? You aren't convinced by my argument? What do you mean it's got the same sort of logic that even four year-olds have grown out of using? But...but...my driver is the best! WAAAAAAAAH!

*sigh*

Why does every race thread have to descend into this sort of childish rubbish? Why even waste your own time typing out such a laughable post? What value do you think you are adding? Seriously, what value are you adding?

Not many people actually read these threads (not least because it's a dumpster fire populated almost entirely by children throwing their poop at each other), if people want to prove that their driver is the 'bestest evah' then perhaps you should go to a more popular site and spam your trash there. You'll have an even bigger audience of people who will have to put up with your idiocy and the rest of us can try and discuss the race and actually learn things from the observations of others.

[giantfan10]

Would he have won without rain, SC and team orders? No, he wouldn't!

Would Vettel have won so many GPs this year without Ferrari having a better car? I am asking a similar question (both questions are highly logical OR totally illogical. Decide yourself).

Did Hamilton ordered rain?
Did Hamilton asked Vettel to go off?
Did Hamilton asked for team orders?
When was the last time a driver beat Hamilton to lead, after a SC restart? How different was the situation in Spa last year? Did he not save his lead? What's the ground to claim that Bottas would have beaten Hamilton?
Why is Hamilton's win questionable?

Why is Hamiltons win questionable to me? His pit lane antics.... Vettel slid of a wet track with worn softs... it happens.... i recall Hamilton @ Malaysia having the same issue @ a much slower speed in the pit lane.... it happens to the best of them...
Its common knowledge...you have the best car and you are an above average driver your chances of winning the championship quadruples...Vettel. mikka...alonso..hamilton..schuey....they all had the best car at some point and won....they didnt have the best car and they didnt....pretty simple....my driver is better than your driver is a neverending circle with no end in sight.

[PlatinumZealot]

Apparently, Hamilton has won all the rain GPs since the last 5 years. Last person to win another GP during rain was Daniel Ricciardo at Hungary 2014. Since then, Hamilton has won Japan 2014, Silverstone 2015, USA 2015, Monaco 2016, Silverstone 2016, Brazil 2016, China 2017, Singapore 2017 and most recently, Hockenheim 2018.

Incidentally Vettel cracked under pressure and crashed out in the last two wet races. Is that a trend froming there?

[TAG]

Apparently, Hamilton has won all the rain GPs since the last 5 years. Last person to win another GP during rain was Daniel Ricciardo at Hungary 2014. Since then, Hamilton has won Japan 2014, Silverstone 2015, USA 2015, Monaco 2016, Silverstone 2016, Brazil 2016, China 2017, Singapore 2017 and most recently, Hockenheim 2018.

Incidentally Vettel cracked under pressure and crashed out in the last two wet races. Is that a trend froming there?

I remember a wet race in Canada 2011 on the last lap even.

[Vasconia]

Nah.....Vettel fans cannot accept that their idol is not as fast as their rival in rain. Even if u show them the data

Hamilton has been particularly fast in rain with a few exceptions. This is the feeling and memories I have though I dont pay too much attention to last years because we haven´t seen truly wet races and with Mercedes dominance, Rosberg was the only rival. And let´s say it clearly, Nico was a great driver but not so good under the rain.

So how would u rate Schumacher and Senna?
Their teammates were not so good in rain aswell....... OR is it how they drive in rain making their teammates look ordinary?

I compare ther driving with the rest of the field, doing it with great cars but also with no so good cars.


About Nico, he was not bad under the rain but Hamilton(and Schumi) made him look worse.

[Vasconia]

Apparently, Hamilton has won all the rain GPs since the last 5 years. Last person to win another GP during rain was Daniel Ricciardo at Hungary 2014. Since then, Hamilton has won Japan 2014, Silverstone 2015, USA 2015, Monaco 2016, Silverstone 2016, Brazil 2016, China 2017, Singapore 2017 and most recently, Hockenheim 2018.

Incidentally Vettel cracked under pressure and crashed out in the last two wet races. Is that a trend froming there?

I remember a wet race in Canada 2011 on the last lap even.

Singapure was different, it was an start and I wouldn´t call it a mistake because of rain. He miscalculated and took a unnecessary risk at the beginnig.

About Canada, well, it was a mistake. And I suppose it was because of the pressure because it wasn´t rainning at that moment. That was weird because he has been usually a quite good driver under the rain.

[LM10]

Apparently, Hamilton has won all the rain GPs since the last 5 years. Last person to win another GP during rain was Daniel Ricciardo at Hungary 2014. Since then, Hamilton has won Japan 2014, Silverstone 2015, USA 2015, Monaco 2016, Silverstone 2016, Brazil 2016, China 2017, Singapore 2017 and most recently, Hockenheim 2018.

Incidentally Vettel cracked under pressure and crashed out in the last two wet races. Is that a trend froming there?

Which crack are you talking about regarding Singapore? He did nothing wrong, not a single thing about his move was a mistake. It was a really unlucky incident, that’s it.

And talking about the wet races mentioned above which Hamilton won. Well, Hamilton is an excellent driver in wet conditions, but I think it shouldn’t be forgotten that he still was, by far, in the most superior car.

[dans79]

Which crack are you talking about regarding Singapore? He did nothing wrong, not a single thing about his move was a mistake. It was a really unlucky incident, that’s it.

You don't have to do anything wrong to make a mistake. His mistake was closing the door on Max so aggressively, because he wasn't focused on the long game.

[LM10]

Which crack are you talking about regarding Singapore? He did nothing wrong, not a single thing about his move was a mistake. It was a really unlucky incident, that’s it.

You don't have to do anything wrong to make a mistake. His mistake was closing the door on Max so aggressively, because he wasn't focused on the long game.

I guess you still remember that Kimi had a superb start and overtook Verstappen on the inside, right? Vettel closing the door was a thing every driver does. It was not even more aggressive than other usual starts.

Check out how Hamilton closed the door on Vettel in the US Grand Prix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aljfbhxtdyc&t

The only difference was that in Singapore there was no chance for Vettel to see Kimi being on the inside. This lead to less room for Verstappen to avoid a contact with Vettel, just like Vettel did to avoid one with Hamilton in USA.

[Andres125sx]

Reading this discussion between Vettel and Hamilton fans about who´s the better driver under the rain and who make more mistakes under pressure, my conclusion is the next: The best driver is, by far, Alonso

Contrary to both Lewis and Seb, he´s never cracked under pressure, and consistency wise, he´s light years ahead of any of the other two.

Some people may think I´m just provoking, but it´s my sincere conclusion, I´ve considered these three the best of the grid for quite some seasons, with no real evidences about who was the best of the three. I did consider Lewis the fastest, Alonso the most consistent, and Vettel something in between.


But sincerely, both Seb and Lewis make too many mistakes. I have a bitter feeling Alonso would win the title with any of the Ferrari or Mercedes cars, easily. Both are failing too much to beat Alonso´s rock solid consistency

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Reading this discussion between Vettel and Hamilton fans about who´s the better driver under the rain and who make more mistakes under pressure, my conclusion is the next: The best driver is, by far, Alonso

Contrary to both Lewis and Seb, he´s never cracked under pressure, and consistency wise, he´s light years ahead of any of the other two.

Some people may think I´m just provoking, but it´s my sincere conclusion, I´ve considered these three the best of the grid for quite some seasons, with no real evidences about who was the best of the three. I did consider Lewis the fastest, Alonso the most consistent, and Vettel something in between.


But sincerely, both Seb and Lewis make too many mistakes. I have a bitter feeling Alonso would win the title with any of the Ferrari or Mercedes cars, easily. Both are failing too much to beat Alonso´s rock solid consistency

Agreed.
I am trying to recall, when was the last time Alonso locked up in qualifying? Yet, he almost always beats his team mate in qualifying.
When was the last time, he went and screwed another car on first lap? He has got screwed a few times, but having spent most of his life starting from second/third row of the grid and past few years in the middle of the grid, he still has gotten screwed far too less than most others around him at the start.
When was the last time he lost a place at the start?

[sosic2121]

Which crack are you talking about regarding Singapore? He did nothing wrong, not a single thing about his move was a mistake. It was a really unlucky incident, that’s it.

You don't have to do anything wrong to make a mistake. His mistake was closing the door on Max so aggressively, because he wasn't focused on the long game.

No it wasn't. It was only logical thing to do. Vettel's problem was that he didn't know where Kimi was.
If he left inside of T1 to Max, he would have not seen T2...
In the end it wasn't Vettel who made contact.

[sosic2121]

Reading this discussion between Vettel and Hamilton fans about who´s the better driver under the rain and who make more mistakes under pressure, my conclusion is the next: The best driver is, by far, Alonso

Contrary to both Lewis and Seb, he´s never cracked under pressure, and consistency wise, he´s light years ahead of any of the other two.

Some people may think I´m just provoking, but it´s my sincere conclusion, I´ve considered these three the best of the grid for quite some seasons, with no real evidences about who was the best of the three. I did consider Lewis the fastest, Alonso the most consistent, and Vettel something in between.


But sincerely, both Seb and Lewis make too many mistakes. I have a bitter feeling Alonso would win the title with any of the Ferrari or Mercedes cars, easily. Both are failing too much to beat Alonso´s rock solid consistency

I still hope Alonso will replace Kimi next year

[dans79]

The only difference was that in Singapore there was no chance for Vettel to see Kimi being on the inside. This lead to less room for Verstappen to avoid a contact with Vettel, just like Vettel did to avoid one with Hamilton in USA.

Did I say there was a difference? No

Some here seem to assume that just because some moved worked in one case that makes it ok in another, and that's far from the case!

If you make an agressive move and it bites you in the backside, because you where not fully aware of your surroundings, or misjudged something, it's a mistake, and you only have yourself to blame!

[siskue2005]

Reading this discussion between Vettel and Hamilton fans about who´s the better driver under the rain and who make more mistakes under pressure, my conclusion is the next: The best driver is, by far, Alonso

Contrary to both Lewis and Seb, he´s never cracked under pressure, and consistency wise, he´s light years ahead of any of the other two.

Some people may think I´m just provoking, but it´s my sincere conclusion, I´ve considered these three the best of the grid for quite some seasons, with no real evidences about who was the best of the three. I did consider Lewis the fastest, Alonso the most consistent, and Vettel something in between.


But sincerely, both Seb and Lewis make too many mistakes. I have a bitter feeling Alonso would win the title with any of the Ferrari or Mercedes cars, easily. Both are failing too much to beat Alonso´s rock solid consistency

Yes Alonso is expectional at everything else, I agree....but he is not good in rain.... I can give u example were he crashed while leading in rain....but u already know it.
That cost him the championship by 1 point that season..... well carry on with long term memory loss