2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

[LM10]

The only difference was that in Singapore there was no chance for Vettel to see Kimi being on the inside. This lead to less room for Verstappen to avoid a contact with Vettel, just like Vettel did to avoid one with Hamilton in USA.

Did I say there was a difference? No

Some here seem to assume that just because some moved worked in one case that makes it ok in another, and that's far from the case!

If you make an agressive move and it bites you in the backside, because you where not fully aware of your surroundings, or misjudged something, it's a mistake, and you only have yourself to blame!

He was aware of his visible surroundings. Can't blame him for not noticing Kimi who simply wasn't in the right angle to be seen.

[siskue2005]

The only difference was that in Singapore there was no chance for Vettel to see Kimi being on the inside. This lead to less room for Verstappen to avoid a contact with Vettel, just like Vettel did to avoid one with Hamilton in USA.

Did I say there was a difference? No

Some here seem to assume that just because some moved worked in one case that makes it ok in another, and that's far from the case!

If you make an agressive move and it bites you in the backside, because you where not fully aware of your surroundings, or misjudged something, it's a mistake, and you only have yourself to blame!

He was aware of his visible surroundings. Can't blame him for not noticing Kimi who simply wasn't in the right angle to be seen.

Vettels move was very late and ill judged..it was just a panicked blocking to his poor start.. and that too in a wet track.... all these led to the accident... it was 90% vettel's fault.. he should have let max overtake him rather than crowd him considering his championship and how far behind was Lewis on track

[dans79]

He was aware of his visible surroundings. Can't blame him for not noticing Kimi who simply wasn't in the right angle to be seen.

Just seeing is not good enough. If I'm driving down the road just after it rained and the temperature is around freezing just looking for ice isn't good enough. I must assume their is ice and adjust my driving style accordingly.

In Vettel's case he got a bad start and he knew Max got a good one. He should have assumed Max was not the only driver to get a good start, and made allowances. Specially in the rain, he knows starts are very random in the wet.

[Andres125sx]

Reading this discussion between Vettel and Hamilton fans about who´s the better driver under the rain and who make more mistakes under pressure, my conclusion is the next: The best driver is, by far, Alonso

Contrary to both Lewis and Seb, he´s never cracked under pressure, and consistency wise, he´s light years ahead of any of the other two.

Some people may think I´m just provoking, but it´s my sincere conclusion, I´ve considered these three the best of the grid for quite some seasons, with no real evidences about who was the best of the three. I did consider Lewis the fastest, Alonso the most consistent, and Vettel something in between.


But sincerely, both Seb and Lewis make too many mistakes. I have a bitter feeling Alonso would win the title with any of the Ferrari or Mercedes cars, easily. Both are failing too much to beat Alonso´s rock solid consistency

Yes Alonso is expectional at everything else, I agree....but he is not good in rain.... I can give u example were he crashed while leading in rain....but u already know it.
That cost him the championship by 1 point that season..... well carry on with long term memory loss

Alonso not good in the rain? Maybe not mind-blowing under the rain, but still above F1 average IMHO

What example about crashing under the rain while leading? Fair question, can't remind any but my memory is too weak to be sure

[GrayGreat]

Reading this discussion between Vettel and Hamilton fans about who´s the better driver under the rain and who make more mistakes under pressure, my conclusion is the next: The best driver is, by far, Alonso

Contrary to both Lewis and Seb, he´s never cracked under pressure, and consistency wise, he´s light years ahead of any of the other two.

Some people may think I´m just provoking, but it´s my sincere conclusion, I´ve considered these three the best of the grid for quite some seasons, with no real evidences about who was the best of the three. I did consider Lewis the fastest, Alonso the most consistent, and Vettel something in between.


But sincerely, both Seb and Lewis make too many mistakes. I have a bitter feeling Alonso would win the title with any of the Ferrari or Mercedes cars, easily. Both are failing too much to beat Alonso´s rock solid consistency

Yes Alonso is expectional at everything else, I agree....but he is not good in rain.... I can give u example were he crashed while leading in rain....but u already know it.
That cost him the championship by 1 point that season..... well carry on with long term memory loss

Another driver lost championship that season, by 1 point, it was not even raining anymore (i think), by parking his car in the gravel, while going to the PITLANE.

[siskue2005]

Reading this discussion between Vettel and Hamilton fans about who´s the better driver under the rain and who make more mistakes under pressure, my conclusion is the next: The best driver is, by far, Alonso

Contrary to both Lewis and Seb, he´s never cracked under pressure, and consistency wise, he´s light years ahead of any of the other two.

Some people may think I´m just provoking, but it´s my sincere conclusion, I´ve considered these three the best of the grid for quite some seasons, with no real evidences about who was the best of the three. I did consider Lewis the fastest, Alonso the most consistent, and Vettel something in between.


But sincerely, both Seb and Lewis make too many mistakes. I have a bitter feeling Alonso would win the title with any of the Ferrari or Mercedes cars, easily. Both are failing too much to beat Alonso´s rock solid consistency

Yes Alonso is expectional at everything else, I agree....but he is not good in rain.... I can give u example were he crashed while leading in rain....but u already know it.
That cost him the championship by 1 point that season..... well carry on with long term memory loss

Alonso not good in the rain? Maybe not mind-blowing under the rain, but still above F1 average IMHO

What example about crashing under the rain while leading? Fair question, can't remind any but my memory is too weak to be sure

Fuji race 2007

[Danlizzyman]

Yes Alonso is expectional at everything else, I agree....but he is not good in rain.... I can give u example were he crashed while leading in rain....but u already know it.
That cost him the championship by 1 point that season..... well carry on with long term memory loss

Alonso not good in the rain? Maybe not mind-blowing under the rain, but still above F1 average IMHO

What example about crashing under the rain while leading? Fair question, can't remind any but my memory is too weak to be sure

Fuji race 2007

Don't think Alonso was leading that one though? Wasn't Ham ahead of him?

[siskue2005]

Reading this discussion between Vettel and Hamilton fans about who´s the better driver under the rain and who make more mistakes under pressure, my conclusion is the next: The best driver is, by far, Alonso

Contrary to both Lewis and Seb, he´s never cracked under pressure, and consistency wise, he´s light years ahead of any of the other two.

Some people may think I´m just provoking, but it´s my sincere conclusion, I´ve considered these three the best of the grid for quite some seasons, with no real evidences about who was the best of the three. I did consider Lewis the fastest, Alonso the most consistent, and Vettel something in between.


But sincerely, both Seb and Lewis make too many mistakes. I have a bitter feeling Alonso would win the title with any of the Ferrari or Mercedes cars, easily. Both are failing too much to beat Alonso´s rock solid consistency

Yes Alonso is expectional at everything else, I agree....but he is not good in rain.... I can give u example were he crashed while leading in rain....but u already know it.
That cost him the championship by 1 point that season..... well carry on with long term memory loss

Another driver lost championship that season, by 1 point, it was not even raining anymore (i think), by parking his car in the gravel, while going to the PITLANE.

Ok
But that doesn't make Alonsos error any less

[siskue2005]

Alonso not good in the rain? Maybe not mind-blowing under the rain, but still above F1 average IMHO

What example about crashing under the rain while leading? Fair question, can't remind any but my memory is too weak to be sure

Fuji race 2007

Don't think Alonso was leading that one though? Wasn't Ham ahead of him?

Ok p2 my mistake, but that 8 points lost due to crash in rain....he could have won the championship

[GrayGreat]

Yes Alonso is expectional at everything else, I agree....but he is not good in rain.... I can give u example were he crashed while leading in rain....but u already know it.
That cost him the championship by 1 point that season..... well carry on with long term memory loss

Another driver lost championship that season, by 1 point, it was not even raining anymore (i think), by parking his car in the gravel, while going to the PITLANE.

Ok
But that doesn't make Alonsos error any less

1 error from Alonso does not make him bad in the rain, just like 1 error from Lewis does not make him bad in the rain. Or does it?

[Danlizzyman]

Fuji race 2007

Don't think Alonso was leading that one though? Wasn't Ham ahead of him?

Ok p2 my mistake, but that 8 points lost due to crash in rain....he could have won the championship

Absolutely, that was a massive moment in the championship fight, and a race where Hamilton really impressed. Considering it was still his debut season it was an amazing performance.

[siskue2005]

Another driver lost championship that season, by 1 point, it was not even raining anymore (i think), by parking his car in the gravel, while going to the PITLANE.

Ok
But that doesn't make Alonsos error any less

1 error from Alonso does not make him bad in the rain, just like 1 error from Lewis does not make him bad in the rain. Or does it?

Ok then tell me races were he is good.....or he did something amazing in rain like Schumacher senna?

[GrayGreat]

Ok
But that doesn't make Alonsos error any less

1 error from Alonso does not make him bad in the rain, just like 1 error from Lewis does not make him bad in the rain. Or does it?

Ok then tell me races were he is good.....or he did something amazing in rain like Schumacher senna?

I did not even try to prove Alonso as a wet driving GOD, but you certainly wanted to prove he is bad in the wet, and you have given ONE example only. So why don't you provide more to convince me rather than the other way around?

[siskue2005]

1 error from Alonso does not make him bad in the rain, just like 1 error from Lewis does not make him bad in the rain. Or does it?

Ok then tell me races were he is good.....or he did something amazing in rain like Schumacher senna?

I did not even try to prove Alonso as a wet driving GOD, but you certainly wanted to prove he is bad in the wet, and you have given ONE example only. So why don't you provide more to convince me rather than the other way around?

Mate...read the posts which i was quoting and replying to... someone here was saying Alonso is God and he never makes mistakes under pressure (which is the topic of discussion)... so I gave them this example....it is not as if I said this out of spite

Here is the quote I was replying to

Reading this discussion between Vettel and Hamilton fans about who´s the better driver under the rain and who make more mistakes under pressure, my conclusion is the next: The best driver is, by far, Alonso

Contrary to both Lewis and Seb, he´s never cracked under pressure, and consistency wise, he´s light years ahead of any of the other two.

Some people may think I´m just provoking, but it´s my sincere conclusion, I´ve considered these three the best of the grid for quite some seasons, with no real evidences about who was the best of the three. I did consider Lewis the fastest, Alonso the most consistent, and Vettel something in between.


But sincerely, both Seb and Lewis make too many mistakes. I have a bitter feeling Alonso would win the title with any of the Ferrari or Mercedes cars, easily. Both are failing too much to beat Alonso´s rock solid consistency

[PinkFloydPulse]

Mods... Can we do a cleanup on isle "2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22"...