2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

[Big Tea]

As well as the pool money, they are probably looking at the sponsors and staff with interest.
It sounds as if they have signed, but 'expresses concerns'. Or is it clear they have not?

[IamLegend]

Done some digging.

Seems Perez, BWT, Mercedes and Stroll Sr have done a job on the team. Mercedes, eager to get a B Team have teamed up with BWT and Perez to wind the team up and wrestle team away from Malya and Sahara for a knocked down sum. Stroll Sr has offered a significant wedge to the court to buy the team out from its owners and buy Lance a decent drive. Liberty are not innocent as well as they have withheld the last two months of payments to Force India to get a sale done as well, this is $7.2m for the last two months.

Do i blame all the interested parties? I do not, Mercedes have seen how good Haas has been for Ferrari and how good Sauber are also becoming. They need a disruptive force in the mid pack to keep Haas and Sauber out of the points, and also a team to develop younger guys. BWT have seen the team go backward this year, so i suspect they want to see their brand in the top ten regularly. Perez is wanting a car that can compete, and he has seen the rise and rise of the stock of Magnussen and Le Clerc this year and is wanting to be up there with both of them. As for Stroll, he is wanting his boy in a top capable 10 car, Williams is not this at the moment. And i secretly think this will also be used for Mercedes to loan out Ocon to Renault for the next two years, a roll Ocon will be happy to take and Renault will also accept and will properly sever the links to Red Bull. And Liberty have been eager to get the Indian pair out of the sport, as they have been bad news and this will also be a means to an end there.

I personally think its good for F1. As long as we don't have a Ericsson situation where a driver is being kept in place in a team when he is seat blocking. Im giving Stroll a few years before this happens, as Markus needs to clear off as he is not that great and giving the seat to a Giovinazzi would be better for the team and F1. Next problem for F1 to solve would be Williams.

This is a mess, but i will say this now, Renault will want a B Team and I suspect there could be another new privateer one too, bringing the grid to 24 in 2021.

The issue with Perez is little different, as the party which sued SFI is the company which sponsors Checo and they once said that they waited for 1 years for their dues which is Salary + other compensation.
As far as BWT is concerned, I never knew that it was on loan. I mean they gave SFI loan to get the whole car pink and lose half of its identity ? BWT is definitely looking to buy into the team and probably thinks they have much better chance of owning it, because before this deal I never knew there is such company.

So all this talks about ganging up against SFI looks true here. I think some people in F1 didn't want to see some outsider/privateer as owner who would play against the will of big three teams and Liberty group, they knew SFI+Sauber are opposing the revenue sharing model and would affect the sport going further.


Next in the line could be Sauber or may be Williams.

One thing is confirmed, Sahara Force India will be sold very soon. And I don't like this idea at all.

Caterham then Marussia and now Force India, Turbo charge era is killing many independent teams.

The promise of bringing a budget cap by liberty media has turned into forcing these smaller teams to become 'B' teams to the big boys in F1. Very sad indeed, I'm not sure why some people on this forum think this is a good idea that privateers are being forced out. Anyway I hope the current stakeholders get a good deal and are not arm twisted into selling the team that they nurtured for the past decade into a commendable and consistent performer.

[mclaren111]

Maybe Zak Brown is stalling for time as he needs time to talk to James Key and see if they can hire some good people from FI. McLaren need a few more good guys / girls.

Just a thought....

[Manjhi]

Whats fascinating for me is, why Toto is so interested in new owners of SFI ? That guy/Daimler only owns $ 10 millions and behaves as if he is the master of the roaster.

There is something fishy over here.

[multisync]

You aren't worth my time either Mr.Charlathan Octagenarian who can only recollect "facts" from >30 odd years ago.

Jeesus H Christ grow up

[marmer]

Whats fascinating for me is, why Toto is so interested in new owners of SFI ? That guy/Daimler only owns $ 10 millions and behaves as if he is the master of the roaster.

There is something fishy over here.

His interest is likely that he doesn't want it ending up in a team that night slap a different engine in it. They would loose out in data

[NAPI10]

Vijay is quite vocal about team related issues ; why he is so silent?
There is no direct comment from his side.
Brawn seems to be confident of resolving it in few weeks time -
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/braw ... z-1066234/

[PhillipM]

His interest is likely that he doesn't want it ending up in a team that night slap a different engine in it. They would loose out in data

And he certainly doesn't want it bought out by a shell company for Honda or Ferrari...

[Gaz.]

Caterham then Marussia and now Force India, Turbo charge era is killing many independent teams.

I think exceptionally questionable financial acumen has been a bigger factor in killing the above teams.

[bill shoe]

Caterham then Marussia and now Force India, Turbo charge era is killing many independent teams.

I think exceptionally questionable financial acumen has been a bigger factor in killing the above teams.

Financially surviving F1 is really really tough. The fact that Caterham & Marussia didn't make it is not evidence of bad financial decisions. There's no path that guarantees income equal or greater than expenses.

And turbos are not killing small teams. It's the lack of cost caps on the powertrains. The latter years of the naturally-aspirated V-8s were subject to ~$5 million lease limits, thanks to Max Mosley bargaining with the big teams. And it greatly pains me to credit Max Mosley with anything, but facts are facts. Now the lease limits are gone and an engine lease is, what, $20-30 million? It's like Disneyland for the big fish. Pay up or leave.

Go back far enough in the history of every Formula 1 team and you'll see a dreamer taking a chance. You think Enzo had a clear plan in 1955 for revenues to exceed expenses? You think Ken Tyrell had a clear plan for revenues to exceed expenses when he jumped into F1 in 1968?, today that team is Mercedes!! The seemingly stable teams now are simply the ones where the dream and the risk worked out. No team was financially stable when it started.

Force India??!! Eddie Jordan had a dream, nothing more. That's where Force India came from. Hope it stays with us for a long time.

EDIT: After looking thru last couple pages I see most of this has already been discussed. I have some sympathy for the teams that are trying to scuttle the would-be F1 power-structure where manufacturers and their b-team lackeys will account for 8 of 10 teams on the grid.

[multisync]

The problem is that no one back then when the rules were made realised what an arms race F1 was to become.

Its not the playground of enthusiasts or millionaires. Even a billionaire would struggle. It's a multinational conglomerate thing now. Back in the day privateers could outsmart the big boys and win.now there is absolutely no chance.

Ironically those defending the smaller teams are rather quiet on why Williams seem reluctant to vote to keep FI afloat.
So the buyer has just has to be massively financed . Rich energy via Gold and Sullivan couldn't and wouldn't have the finances mid to long term and the judge was right to dismiss their application.
Having been around the team since 1999 to very recently and still know a lot of the guys there I remember the dark days and so do they. For at least 5 years they've lived hand to mouth struggling with paying suppliers and parts . Far worse than it was known. They have come through everything so far Midland spyker etc but this may just be one hurdle too high.

When a team goes into admin there are always 'a stream of potential buyers willing to invest' most disappear when its time to put pen to paper..its not a great time to be buying a F1 team right now with so much uncertainty inside and outside the sport. So much so thst I have a growing suspicion this may be the case here too.

I hope i am wrong but The Graveyards Are Full of Indispensable Men...

[NAPI10]

William Storey on Force India's future -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uhAWuMwyyo

[IamLegend]

Vijay is quite vocal about team related issues ; why he is so silent?
There is no direct comment from his side.
Brawn seems to be confident of resolving it in few weeks time -
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/braw ... z-1066234/

It all just seems like a very sneaky ploy to take the team away from the current owners, let's see what Brawn can do.


Fernley nuanced Perez's claim however, insisting it was not a fair representation of last week's events.

"The winding-up order that was due to be heard, HMRC [Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs] were dismissing that because all the money had been paid," he said.

According to Fernley, Mallya was hard at work trying to find a solution to enable Force India continue as a going concern. Perez's initiative came as a total surprise to the Indian tycoon.


http://www.f1i.com/news/312927-devastat ... rnley.html

"After a meeting in Budapest last weekend about Force India's situation McLaren, Renault and Williams all decided not to sign an agreement, at least for the time being, despite some urgent canvassing from F1 CEO Chase Carey on Force India's behalf.

All three are keen to make a point to F1's owners about the increasing power of the alliances around Mercedes and Ferrari.

There's a shared concern that Force India is being lined up by Mercedes boss Toto Wolff to become a 'B-team', and that will only increase the power base of F1's two major manufacturers."

Although Williams is aligned with Mercedes as a customer, it has always insisted teams should be independent constructors.

If Force India is not guaranteed to receive the income it was originally due - and which has been boosted by it finishing in fourth place in the constructors' championship over the past two seasons - the team's value to potential purchasers will be much lower, and the uncertainty could derail plans for a quick sale.


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13775 ... sale-plans

[multisync]

Vijay is quite vocal about team related issues ; why he is so silent?
There is no direct comment from his side.
Brawn seems to be confident of resolving it in few weeks time -
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/braw ... z-1066234/

It all just seems like a very sneaky ploy to take the team away from the current owners, let's see what Brawn can do.


Fernley nuanced Perez's claim however, insisting it was not a fair representation of last week's events.

"The winding-up order that was due to be heard, HMRC [Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs] were dismissing that because all the money had been paid," he said.

According to Fernley, Mallya was hard at work trying to find a solution to enable Force India continue as a going concern. Perez's initiative came as a total surprise to the Indian tycoon.


http://www.f1i.com/news/312927-devastat ... rnley.html

"After a meeting in Budapest last weekend about Force India's situation McLaren, Renault and Williams all decided not to sign an agreement, at least for the time being, despite some urgent canvassing from F1 CEO Chase Carey on Force India's behalf.

All three are keen to make a point to F1's owners about the increasing power of the alliances around Mercedes and Ferrari.

There's a shared concern that Force India is being lined up by Mercedes boss Toto Wolff to become a 'B-team', and that will only increase the power base of F1's two major manufacturers."

Although Williams is aligned with Mercedes as a customer, it has always insisted teams should be independent constructors.

If Force India is not guaranteed to receive the income it was originally due - and which has been boosted by it finishing in fourth place in the constructors' championship over the past two seasons - the team's value to potential purchasers will be much lower, and the uncertainty could derail plans for a quick sale.


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13775 ... sale-plans

it seems that everyone wanted FI sold except the people desperate to sell.Almost suicidal behaviour.

The interview with Storey alluded to the board of Mercedes being ok but some lower management people having their own agenda. I suspect it alludes to Wolfe but he's being a bit rogue on this point (unless that's merc boards agenda too but keeping stum?)

Thought Storey sounded credible and handled the conversation very well. Pity on why he wasn't pushed on the "but FI lawyers stalled" point as that is crucial to this whole affair..

Although to be honest someone somewhere stroking a white cat said " he needs taking out"

[Mattchu]

Well I for one am pretty gutted and disturbed by all this! Force India have always had a soft spot in my heart and I just loved the way they beat the odds the last couple of years to finish 4th or best of the rest.
We need characters in Formula 1 and Vijay Mallya is certainly one of those, the swashbuckling playboyish rich guy who has wild parties on his yacht when at Monaco but gets the business done come race day.
I`m not condoning his "other" activities though, if he has done wrong [fraud, money laundering, etc] then he needs to be properly dealt with!

Lets get rid of these over complicated PU`s and replace them with something more attainable to pretty much any significant engine manufacturer, possibly more might join whereas now they wouldn`t touch F1 with a bargepole after what Honda went through. Less reliance on computer programs, software mapping and less cost to the customer of the engine.