private teams should switch to honda

[marmer]

With force India administration struggles and Williams, McLaren poor performance. I put it to you that these teams would be better off long term switching to honda and if I was Hass or sauber this would also be the long-term goal.

This is because now honda is out of the one team bind that McLaren put on them they are a real alternative leaving mercedes Ferrari and Renault to make engines for themselves while honda remain just a supplier.

It would benefit honda in terms of data that they collect. Weeken the big current teams.

Private teams would have a level playing field and could base there performance on the ability of the design teams

[Dr. Acula]

Force Indias financial struggle and the poor performance of Williams and Mclaren have nothing to do with the engine...well maybe partially at Mclaren, but if the problem only would be the Renault engine, they should be as fast as RBR, which they aren't.

Why should Sauber switch to Honda for instance? The Ferrari engine gives them a real advantage at the moment and it's the same with Haas. Also, does Honda supply the gearbox? Because Sauber didn't have the facilities anymore to build them by their own. As far as i know it was planed to use the McLaren gearbox when Sauber wanted to switch to Honda.
Are the Honda PU's significantly cheaper than the one of Ferrari and Mercedes?
Also, for teams like Sauber or Williams their ranking in the constructors championship at the end of the year can be extremly importent because this is what decides how much money they get. So it's really not an option for them to give up a PU advantage even if it's just a short term advantage.
I see no real reason for the private teams to switch to Honda, especially with the still uncertain 2021 engine changes.

[Jolle]

Plus, if you’re already struggling the last thing you have to do it take a gamble. The Merc PU is relatively cheap and gives you reliability, performance and a steady partner.

[marmer]

my point is that if all customer teams had an engine that did not have a race team none of those teams would have an advantage over each other. Ferrari Mercedes and Renault would only have two cars each so would find it harder to collect data and they would also loose income from the engines they sell to customers. reducing the advantage

once Honda match performance all these teams would have a chance to be a top team right now they don't have a chance as they are just slaves to the large team. we saw it last year when Renault held parts back from toro rosso to help them out in the championship the only reason why it won't happen to red bull is that they are to far apart. its not happend with Ferrari and haas yes as there is still a gap. if haas could get close they would suddenly see a drop off in how friendly the partnership really is. this is why Redbull have issues getting engines Ferrari don't want to be beat by a customer and neither do Mercedes. Renault don't really want them but its rather mute until Renault become a real power house again when red bull won titles they where on reduced budgets and rubbish drivers (apart from kimi)

[Jolle]

Slaves of the top teams? That’s a bit harsh. RedBull and Renault are on a collision course since 2014, all other teams have very healthy relationships with their PU suppliers.
Ferrari and Mercedes aren’t scared that FI, Williams, HAAS or Sauber are coming close, their budget just won’t allow for the kind of development that’s needed. McLaren and RedBull are the odd ones. The budget of a world team but a customer PU. They is why McLaren had no choice to go for Honda and was foolish to end that contract. Same goes for RedBull, they have no choice.

[Dr. Acula]

my point is that if all customer teams had an engine that did not have a race team none of those teams would have an advantage over each other. Ferrari Mercedes and Renault would only have two cars each so would find it harder to collect data and they would also loose income from the engines they sell to customers. reducing the advantage

once Honda match performance all these teams would have a chance to be a top team right now they don't have a chance as they are just slaves to the large team.

If Honda matches the performance. That isn't something you can be certain about. Look at Renault, they try catch up since the beginning of the Turbo-Hybrid era.
Also it needs more than just the best PU to be a top team. You know what really makes the difference? Money. Mercedes, Ferrari, RBR and Renault have a lot of it, the privat teams don't.

this is why Redbull have issues getting engines Ferrari don't want to be beat by a customer and neither do Mercedes.

Yes, so what? I would do the exact same thing if i'm the one at Merc or Ferrari to decide who gets the PU's. Why should i help a direct competitor in a competion i intend to win? F1 isn't fair, it never was. Has RBR stopped using the superior hot blowing effect of the Renault engine because it gave them an unfair advantage? No they didn't.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Once Honda gets to a level where they can beat the other engine manufacturers they will be looking to buy/start a works team. Mercedes did it, BMW did it, Renault has done it several times recently, heck Honda has already done it once before! The marketing potential is much greater when it's a manufacturers car winning rather than just the engine.

[Big Tea]

A privateer would want consistency and reliability above all else (within reason).
At the moment I think Ferrari seem to be the engine to deliver this, so all other things and especially cost being equal, I don't think the customer teams would gain by switching.

Bernie floated the idea a while back of having a non competing company, Cosworth, as a back up supplier but the teams asked about it said 'no thanks'.

[aran.vtec]

Once Honda gets to a level where they can beat the other engine manufacturers they will be looking to buy/start a works team. Mercedes did it, BMW did it, Renault has done it several times recently, heck Honda has already done it once before! The marketing potential is much greater when it's a manufacturers car winning rather than just the engine.

Honda has always had the motto "we build engines first car,bikes etc 2nd" so maybe just being a engine manufacture for f1 is their plan.

[marmer]

my point is that if all customer teams had an engine that did not have a race team none of those teams would have an advantage over each other. Ferrari Mercedes and Renault would only have two cars each so would find it harder to collect data and they would also loose income from the engines they sell to customers. reducing the advantage

once Honda match performance all these teams would have a chance to be a top team right now they don't have a chance as they are just slaves to the large team.

If Honda matches the performance. That isn't something you can be certain about. Look at Renault, they try catch up since the beginning of the Turbo-Hybrid era.
Also it needs more than just the best PU to be a top team. You know what really makes the difference? Money. Mercedes, Ferrari, RBR and Renault have a lot of it, the privat teams don't.

this is why Redbull have issues getting engines Ferrari don't want to be beat by a customer and neither do Mercedes.

Yes, so what? I would do the exact same thing if i'm the one at Merc or Ferrari to decide who gets the PU's. Why should i help a direct competitor in a competion i intend to win? F1 isn't fair, it never was. Has RBR stopped using the superior hot blowing effect of the Renault engine because it gave them an unfair advantage? No they didn't.

But apart from red bull the reason those teams can spend so much in F1 is due to them selling engines.

Sure they could spend money from other areas of the car companies but that isn't suitanable long term. Look at BMW Toyota for example higher management gets fed up at wasting money and quit the sport.

You take the ability to sell engines to smaller teams off the big boys the advantage becomes smaller.

[Dr. Acula]

my point is that if all customer teams had an engine that did not have a race team none of those teams would have an advantage over each other. Ferrari Mercedes and Renault would only have two cars each so would find it harder to collect data and they would also loose income from the engines they sell to customers. reducing the advantage

once Honda match performance all these teams would have a chance to be a top team right now they don't have a chance as they are just slaves to the large team.

If Honda matches the performance. That isn't something you can be certain about. Look at Renault, they try catch up since the beginning of the Turbo-Hybrid era.
Also it needs more than just the best PU to be a top team. You know what really makes the difference? Money. Mercedes, Ferrari, RBR and Renault have a lot of it, the privat teams don't.

this is why Redbull have issues getting engines Ferrari don't want to be beat by a customer and neither do Mercedes.

Yes, so what? I would do the exact same thing if i'm the one at Merc or Ferrari to decide who gets the PU's. Why should i help a direct competitor in a competion i intend to win? F1 isn't fair, it never was. Has RBR stopped using the superior hot blowing effect of the Renault engine because it gave them an unfair advantage? No they didn't.

But apart from red bull the reason those teams can spend so much in F1 is due to them selling engines.

Sure they could spend money from other areas of the car companies but that isn't suitanable long term. Look at BMW Toyota for example higher management gets fed up at wasting money and quit the sport.

You take the ability to sell engines to smaller teams off the big boys the advantage becomes smaller.

No. First of all, the engine development runs on a seperate budget. Mercedes for instance has spend somewhere in between 200 and 250 Million Dollars between 2011 and 2014 to develop the first iteration of their championship winning Turbo-Hybrid engine. If you can spend that amount of money even before you ever sell any PU to a customer you really don't care much about the customer payment anyway.
The Merc and Ferrari engine cost somewhere around 20 Million a year for a customer, right? Well that would mean it would take 5-6 years with 2 customers just to get the initial development costs back.
The Data the customer can provide may be intresting, but the money...The money is just a nice to have feature of the customer contracts.
Especially in the case of Mercedes, the PU is actually developed by Mercedes AMG HPP, which isn't a part of the race team.
Do you hear Renault complaining about that they will have only 1 customer team next year and they will run out of money because of that?
If money money would be the driving factor to equip customer teams, the manufacturers would try to undersell each other. But that doesn't happen.