2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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multisync
multisync
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Joined: 18 Oct 2009, 13:23
Location: GB

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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The money laundering was done to keep FI afloat. India has strict sponsorship laws and its difficult and I believe illegal to sponsor outside India. That was the reason he bought whyte & McKay whiskey so he could channel funds from India to the team. Its now being played as money laundering but in actuality was just a way of moving money around for legitimate purposes.

He's not pure as the driven snow but he's certainly not quite the villian he's painted to be

IamLegend
IamLegend
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015, 17:42

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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multisync wrote:
31 Jul 2018, 23:00
The money laundering was done to keep FI afloat. India has strict sponsorship laws and its difficult and I believe illegal to sponsor outside India. That was the reason he bought whyte & McKay whiskey so he could channel funds from India to the team. Its now being played as money laundering but in actuality was just a way of moving money around for legitimate purposes.

He's not pure as the driven snow but he's certainly not quite the villian he's painted to be

Perfectly summarized in this article as to why this CVC Captail and that senile imbecile Bernie Ecclestone laid out this blueprint for the demise of some decently performing teams who inevitably are unable to sustain themselves financially and fall into the clutches of the F1 Cartel, it's high time I stop supporting this sport in any way -

"Unlike many of the 50-odd casualties F1 has suffered over the years, Force India is too good to die, and ended in this predicament not though sporting ineptitude or a loss of focus, but through circumstances playing out tens of thousands of miles removed from the team’s Silverstone base, which were then compounded by Mallya’s refusal to sell, even in the face of fair offers. He firmly believed if he held out until 2021 all would be good.

The tragedy is that even without Mallya’s legal battles Force India was doomed to fail, battered and beaten by a structure devised by F1’s previous commercial owners CVC Capital Partners, one designed to give independent teams absolutely no chance of survival, then gradually force them into the hands of the sport’s majors, Ferrari and Mercedes – who between them aim to “control” six teams, with two owned by Red Bull.

Only Renault and McLaren operate outside of what could arguably be deemed to be a cartel, with all others being somehow reliant on one of the three majors, who, crucially, stand to share bonuses of $250m (£190m) between them this year. That amounts to a billion quid paid to the three top teams since the structure was introduced in 2013, and is paid to them simply for turning up, before any performance-related monies!

Despite an uncertain future, Force India is preparing for 2019
Any wonder they alone have won races since the payment structure was introduced, and invariably locked out the top six places, barring the unexpected?

Extrapolate those bonuses over the full 2013-20 (inclusive) period, and F1’s total money “pot” – amount disbursed in performance payments – would have benefitted to the tune of £1,6bn. On average over the years Force India qualified for 10 per cent of that pot, or £160m – roughly its current pile of debt, including shareholder receivables.

Consider the fate of independents under CVC’s payment structure, in turn inherited by Liberty, and excluded from fat bonuses paid to the top three are – or were in the case of defunct teams – with their fates in brackets:

McLaren – paid bonus ±40 percent of that paid to top three teams
Caterham – administration, then wound up
Marussia/Manor – administration twice, change of ownership and wound up
Lotus – staved off three winding-up attempts, then sold to Renault
Williams – paid flat bonus of £8m on heritage basis, clearly hit hard times
Force India – in administration
Toro Rosso – owned by Red Bull
Sauber – changed ownership after being unable to meet obligations
Haas – incorporated 2015, operates to unique business model"

https://www.racefans.net/2018/08/01/wha ... in-future/
Last edited by IamLegend on 01 Aug 2018, 16:03, edited 2 times in total.

mantikos
mantikos
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Joined: 02 Mar 2011, 17:35

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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multisync wrote:
31 Jul 2018, 23:00
The money laundering was done to keep FI afloat. India has strict sponsorship laws and its difficult and I believe illegal to sponsor outside India. That was the reason he bought whyte & McKay whiskey so he could channel funds from India to the team. Its now being played as money laundering but in actuality was just a way of moving money around for legitimate purposes.

He's not pure as the driven snow but he's certainly not quite the villian he's painted to be
If you consider the fact that these plans to move money outside India to funnel into the team were not declared to the banks while the loans were sought, that explains why he's a scam artist, a fraud, and criminal.

multisync
multisync
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Joined: 18 Oct 2009, 13:23
Location: GB

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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You prefered he just shut the team down on your say so?

IamLegend
IamLegend
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015, 17:42

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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mantikos wrote:
01 Aug 2018, 16:01
multisync wrote:
31 Jul 2018, 23:00
The money laundering was done to keep FI afloat. India has strict sponsorship laws and its difficult and I believe illegal to sponsor outside India. That was the reason he bought whyte & McKay whiskey so he could channel funds from India to the team. Its now being played as money laundering but in actuality was just a way of moving money around for legitimate purposes.

He's not pure as the driven snow but he's certainly not quite the villian he's painted to be
If you consider the fact that these plans to move money outside India to funnel into the team were not declared to the banks while the loans were sought, that explains why he's a scam artist, a fraud, and criminal.

If BTW can "loan" money to the team and in-return receive sponsorship on the car and team as a payment, couldn't Kingfisher airlines at the time do the same? What's your take on it??

The only thing he was and is that he was passionate about the team, here's a personal story I'll share with you - In 2008 I went to the Canadian GP up in Montreal and after the race decided to walk by the pitstops, a few Force India guys were packing up the garage and I just asked them this question and asked how did it feel having a liquor baron as their new team owner, to which they replied - it's a more relaxed approach to work from what is was before (if he meant Spykar or Jordan, I'm not sure), we are allowed to be ourselves and if we have a hard day, we can always drink some Kingfisher beer. By the looks in their faces, it felt genuine and It didn't seem like a scripted answer.

It's too bad things have taken a turn for the worse, but I began to follow this team passionately ever since and I feel very sad to see the position they're in today. Here's hoping something good turns out for all of them.

roon
roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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mantikos wrote:
01 Aug 2018, 16:01
multisync wrote:
31 Jul 2018, 23:00
The money laundering was done to keep FI afloat. India has strict sponsorship laws and its difficult and I believe illegal to sponsor outside India. That was the reason he bought whyte & McKay whiskey so he could channel funds from India to the team. Its now being played as money laundering but in actuality was just a way of moving money around for legitimate purposes.

He's not pure as the driven snow but he's certainly not quite the villian he's painted to be
If you consider the fact that these plans to move money outside India to funnel into the team were not declared to the banks while the loans were sought, that explains why he's a scam artist, a fraud, and criminal.
Name a clean bank.

multisync
multisync
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Joined: 18 Oct 2009, 13:23
Location: GB

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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IamLegend wrote:
01 Aug 2018, 20:09
mantikos wrote:
01 Aug 2018, 16:01
multisync wrote:
31 Jul 2018, 23:00
The money laundering was done to keep FI afloat. India has strict sponsorship laws and its difficult and I believe illegal to sponsor outside India. That was the reason he bought whyte & McKay whiskey so he could channel funds from India to the team. Its now being played as money laundering but in actuality was just a way of moving money around for legitimate purposes.

He's not pure as the driven snow but he's certainly not quite the villian he's painted to be
If you consider the fact that these plans to move money outside India to funnel into the team were not declared to the banks while the loans were sought, that explains why he's a scam artist, a fraud, and criminal.

If BTW can "loan" money to the team and in-return receive sponsorship on the car and team as a payment, couldn't Kingfisher airlines at the time do the same? What's your take on it??

The only thing he was and is that he was passionate about the team, here's a personal story I'll share with you - In 2008 I went to the Canadian GP up in Montreal and after the race decided to walk by the pitstops, a few Force India guys were packing up the garage and I just asked them this question and asked how did it feel having a liquor baron as their new team owner, to which they replied - it's a more relaxed approach to work from what is was before (if he meant Spykar or Jordan, I'm not sure), we are allowed to be ourselves and if we have a hard day, we can always drink some Kingfisher beer. By the looks in their faces, it felt genuine and It didn't seem like a scripted answer.

It's too bad things have taken a turn for the worse, but I began to follow this team passionately ever since and I feel very sad to see the position they're in today. Here's hoping something good turns out for all of them.
VJ was rarely at the HQ for various reasons. I was told (but I'm not confirming) he was a long term sponsor of Mclaren before FI without being credited. He was well liked (although probably never visited more than 20 times in this whole era ) he moved heaven and earth to keep the team going. He wasn't willing to cut and run

How you can 'sponsor' a team by loaning them I'm unsure UNLESS it's as a share option later? The contract will no doubt fully layout the terms and any judge can see quickly who is right. However it does show light on sponsorship. Most think as soon as they announce a deal the sponsor throws them a cheque. It just doesn't happen like that. Sponsors lie and cheat with the best of them. late payment stage payments and no payment is part of all sponsorship deals. Half the time is spent getting sponsorship and the other half chasing the money!

VJ kept the team afloat when money wasn't forthcoming he kept finding it, year after year after year just like any self respecting "scam artist a fraud, and criminal".would ..

The days of Spyker and worse Midland were very dark days as far as investment. The Russian spent most of that time hiding from assassins and the Spykers had eff all money. How Mol kept shares when he sold out is still a surprise tbh

It'll all come out over the next week or so but the whole truth may never be fully know.

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adrianjordan
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010, 11:34
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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I reckon Eddie Jordan knows most of the story....it would be interesting if he wrote a tell all book about the team during and after he was the owner...
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Espresso
Espresso
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Joined: 13 Dec 2017, 15:03

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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IamLegend wrote:
31 Jul 2018, 15:53
... - the team's value to potential purchasers will be much lower...
I think it's means the team's purchase value that will be lower. :wink:
You only get the money once.

But the team's intrinsic value as-is will be higher as the payments from F1 are not used to cover the current losses.
The F1 money will be in the books for 2019 (future income).

So for potential buyers this is more interesting. Purchase cheaper and get a better ROI.
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Manjhi
Manjhi
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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Why nobody is talking about the Sahara group ?

They also own 42.5% share. Not only that Indian govt has recently got rights to claim on property of Mallya in UK.

It's getting much more complicated than it looks. Will be interesting to see Indian Govt owning an F1 team. HA HA HA

multisync
multisync
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Joined: 18 Oct 2009, 13:23
Location: GB

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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adrianjordan wrote:
02 Aug 2018, 08:09
I reckon Eddie Jordan knows most of the story....it would be interesting if he wrote a tell all book about the team during and after he was the owner...
Eddie knows everything up to the point he left. After that he is relying on inside contacts telling him. And at the top there wasn't any left only management level.

Interesting fact about EJ who negotiated to sell out to Honda and the contracts were agreed on the table to be signed. He double crossed them over some land as part of the deal and they pulled the plug. His greed got the better of him there I suspect

gshevlin
gshevlin
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Joined: 23 Jun 2017, 19:33

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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I think it's means the team's purchase value that will be lower. :wink:
You only get the money once.

But the team's intrinsic value as-is will be higher as the payments from F1 are not used to cover the current losses.
The F1 money will be in the books for 2019 (future income).

So for potential buyers this is more interesting. Purchase cheaper and get a better ROI.
The objections by the other 3 teams are so that they can have the money that FI would have earned distributed to them instead. This in turn is a reflection of the reality that the current F1 business model is unsustainable for independent teams. They can only survive by allying with a major manufacturer. Williams is hinting strongly that they will have to ally with Mercedes and become a B team in all but name in the future. That tells you all you need to know about the current business model and how it impacts independent teams. Until Liberty fixes the entire economic model of F1, these kinds of maneuvers will continue.
There is an advantage to allowing the team to fall into formal insolvency, in that the debts are wiped out. However, this also risks putting the team that rises from the ashes in a bad place with respect to suppliers, who may refuse to supply it, or demand full payment in cash up front before delivering even a single nut or bolt.

marmer
marmer
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Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manjhi wrote:
02 Aug 2018, 16:34
Why nobody is talking about the Sahara group ?

They also own 42.5% share. Not only that Indian govt has recently got rights to claim on property of Mallya in UK.

It's getting much more complicated than it looks. Will be interesting to see Indian Govt owning an F1 team. HA HA HA
If they actually got 42.5% of the company they would seek to sell rapidly to make as much money back force India is loss making so no point in India keeping hold of it.

Also they wouldn't have control over it as there is still 57.5% to other parties that would just gang up on the Indian government if they attempt to do anything stupid

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FrukostScones
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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good read on autosport forums
Kodza telling interesting stuff.
Don't know if he speaks the truth but he was right with many details in Manor demise.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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F1NAC
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Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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So Lawrence Stroll is buying shares at FI?
The team's management, backed by a consortium of investors led by Lawrence Stroll, have secured the future of the team