Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[PhillipM]

How on earth could you replace the gearbox and diff with a single electric motor, that is limite to 120kw?

Never mind the driveshafts.

[Zynerji]

How on earth could you replace the gearbox and diff with a single electric motor, that is limite to 120kw?

Never mind the driveshafts.

Fully agreed.

They're using an energy strategy, not a hardware work around in my opinion.

[GrandAxe]

How on earth could you replace the gearbox and diff with a single electric motor, that is limite to 120kw?

Never mind the driveshafts.

I understand 120Kw this to be the power the ERS can recover, not what can routed through it.
In other words, the engine driving it directly is not energy recovery and would be outside the 120kw limit. Its a crazy possibility.

Edit: corrected MGU-H to ERS.

[PhillipM]

I'd suggest reading a few of the rules first.

[PlatinumZealot]

@Restless:
The 4MJ limit is only a state-of-charge-difference limit. Basically 4MJ between the max state of charge and the min state of charge. One could in principle store or use more than 4MJ as long as one plays ping-pong between those max and min states of charge of the ES.

Nope. They cannot get away with that. If you watch the battery graphic icon during the races you will notice that it never shows the battery level increasing (recharging) during the lap it only goes to full after they cross the line. Meaning that the FIA easily measures the totalized flow into and out of the MGUK and uses a battery symbol to represent how much of the 4MJ goes into driving the MGUK.

[GrandAxe]

I'd suggest reading a few of the rules first.

Like which ones?
The only obstacle to what I suggested is that the only mechanical connection the MGU-H can have is to the exhaust turbine - this does not preclude other types of connection.

The MGU-H can generate unlimited power and the MGU-H can transfer unlimited power to the MGU-K. So long as the MGU-H's mechanical connection limitation can be overcome, there should be little to stop the MGU-H - MGU-K pathway from being used as an energy converter that can bypass the gearbox and a lot of the drive train.

[Tommy Cookers]

by rule the H can't deliver unlimited power to the K
because the K is limited to a nominal 120 kW power motoring (or generating)

there is no limit on H energy delivery to the K
that will determine the time for which the H can drive the K at a nominal 120 kW or less power

by rule the K is connected to the crankshaft and so works through the gearbox

[Zynerji]

by rule the H can't deliver unlimited power to the K
because the K is limited to a nominal 120 kW power motoring (or generating)

there is no limit on H energy delivery to the K
so there is no limit on how long the H can drive the K at a nominal 120 kW or less power

by rule the K is connected to the crankshaft and do works through the gearbox

See, I feel that this is incorrect. Can you clarify?

[ringo]

How much more power does this engine have over the mercedes unit ?
If we don't know, what is the advantage they have on the straights?

This quantity can lead to what is really giving them this edge. I think they deploy MGUK from start of acceleration all the way up to the top speed while the others deploy only during acceleration.

[GrandAxe]

Lets clear things. Correct me if I'm wrong.

1. The max power the MGU-K can generate is limited to 120kw.
2. The max power the MGU-K can receive from the ES is 120kw.

3. The max power the MGU-H can generate is unlimited.
4. The max power the MGU-K can receive from the MGU-H is unlimited.

5. Only mechanical connections to the MGU-H are limited.

Items 3, 4, 5 create a possible loophole by which the MGU-H can be driven (say by an alternator) and in turn power the MGU-K - bypassing parts of the drive train and gaining power through higher efficiencies and (possibly) reduced weight, as well as gaining the ability to deploy for much longer (the whole lap if necessary, eg during quali).

[subcritical71]

Lets clear things. Correct me if I'm wrong.

1. The max power the MGU-K can generate is limited to 120kw.
2. The max power the MGU-K can receive from the ES is 120kw.

3. The max power the MGU-H can generate is unlimited.
4. The max power the MGU-K can receive from the MGU-H is unlimited.

5. Only mechanical connections to the MGU-H are limited.

Items 3, 4, 5 create a possible loophole by which the MGU-H can be driven (say by an alternator) and in turn power the MGU-K - bypassing parts of the drive train and gaining power through higher efficiencies and (possibly) reduced weight, as well as gaining the ability to deploy for much longer (the whole lap if necessary, eg during quali).

4 is incorrect, the amount of energy transferred from H to K is unlimited. No matter what, the K can only generate or consume 120kw of power. The key here is the difference between energy and power.

[Nonserviam85]

Lets clear things. Correct me if I'm wrong.

1. The max power the MGU-K can generate is limited to 120kw.
2. The max power the MGU-K can receive from the ES is 120kw.

3. The max power the MGU-H can generate is unlimited.
4. The max power the MGU-K can receive from the MGU-H is unlimited.

5. Only mechanical connections to the MGU-H are limited.

Items 3, 4, 5 create a possible loophole by which the MGU-H can be driven (say by an alternator) and in turn power the MGU-K - bypassing parts of the drive train and gaining power through higher efficiencies and (possibly) reduced weight, as well as gaining the ability to deploy for much longer (the whole lap if necessary, eg during quali).

4 is incorrect, the amount of energy transferred from H to K is unlimited. No matter what, the K can only generate or consume 120kw of power. The key here is the difference between energy and power.

It doesn’t make much difference, if the H can provide unlimited Energy and not Power, the duration of delivery will change. It might take longer if the Power transfer is fixed to 120kW but the H will deploy to the K the amount of energy harvested that can be supplied through this route

[wuzak]

The “needs” of the ES are 4MJ charge. K to ES is max of 2MJ. So K provided it can fulfil its full obligations to ES it can only supply 50% of ES “needs”.

The needs of the ES outweigh the needs of the MGU?

[wuzak]

Lets clear things. Correct me if I'm wrong.

1. The max power the MGU-K can generate is limited to 120kw.
2. The max power the MGU-K can receive from the ES is 120kw.

3. The max power the MGU-H can generate is unlimited.
4. The max power the MGU-K can receive from the MGU-H is unlimited.

5. Only mechanical connections to the MGU-H are limited.

Items 3, 4, 5 create a possible loophole by which the MGU-H can be driven (say by an alternator) and in turn power the MGU-K - bypassing parts of the drive train and gaining power through higher efficiencies and (possibly) reduced weight, as well as gaining the ability to deploy for much longer (the whole lap if necessary, eg during quali).

5. The MGUK must be mechanically connected to the engine's crankshaft:

5.2.3 The MGU-K must be solely and permanently mechanically linked to the powertrain before the main clutch. This mechanical link must be of fixed speed ratio to the engine crankshaft.
The rotational speed of the MGU-K may not exceed 50,000rpm.

The weight of the MGU-K (as defined in line 11 of Appendix 2 to these regulations) may not be less than 7kg.
The maximum torque of the MGU-K may not exceed 200Nm. The torque will be referenced to the crankshaft speed and the fixed efficiency correction defined in Article 5.2.2 will be used to monitor the maximum MGU-K torque.
The laminate thickness of the MGU-K may not be less than 0.05mm.

[Zynerji]

See, those are the rules that make no sense... Why make a road relevant hybrid formula, then place such idiotic restrictions on the very items that manufacturers want to develop for their road cars?

Yes, that's a cost sink. Yes, the manufacturers understand that. Yes, that is the most important part of improving future, road going hybrids...

At this point, the only thing they are really developing is software.