McLaren MCL33

[Juzh]

It lacks downforce, that's it, plain and simple.

I'm sorry, but downforce is the only one thing they did not lack (in spa anyway). Trough puohon, a corner that's solely dependant on downforce, they were the 3rd fastest team, behind ferrari and merc, equal/faster even than RB.



This is in Q1 don't forget.

One thing they did lack was straight line speed, but that one's kinda obvious.

[M840TR]

It lacks downforce, that's it, plain and simple.

I'm sorry, but downforce is the only one thing they did not lack (in spa anyway). Trough puohon, a corner that's solely dependant on downforce, they were the 3rd fastest team, behind ferrari and merc, equal/faster even than RB.

https://streamable.com/6vtsi

This is in Q1 don't forget.

One thing they did lack was straight line speed, but that one's kinda obvious.

Err...no mate. Vandoorne was second slowest of all by speed AND time in sector 2 in qualifying.

[Juzh]

It lacks downforce, that's it, plain and simple.

I'm sorry, but downforce is the only one thing they did not lack (in spa anyway). Trough puohon, a corner that's solely dependant on downforce, they were the 3rd fastest team, behind ferrari and merc, equal/faster even than RB.

https://streamable.com/6vtsi

This is in Q1 don't forget.

One thing they did lack was straight line speed, but that one's kinda obvious.

Err...no mate. Vandoorne was second slowest of all by speed AND time in sector 2 in qualifying.

Seems to me they maybe lack mid and slow corner speed, because on peek downforce they're pretty good, as can be seen.

[AnthonyG]

It lacks downforce, that's it, plain and simple.

I'm sorry, but downforce is the only one thing they did not lack (in spa anyway). Trough puohon, a corner that's solely dependant on downforce, they were the 3rd fastest team, behind ferrari and merc, equal/faster even than RB.

https://streamable.com/6vtsi

This is in Q1 don't forget.

One thing they did lack was straight line speed, but that one's kinda obvious.

The problem is then, if they increase the top speed, what is left of the downforce?

[cramr]

It lacks downforce, that's it, plain and simple.

I'm sorry, but downforce is the only one thing they did not lack (in spa anyway). Trough puohon, a corner that's solely dependant on downforce, they were the 3rd fastest team, behind ferrari and merc, equal/faster even than RB.

https://streamable.com/6vtsi

This is in Q1 don't forget.

One thing they did lack was straight line speed, but that one's kinda obvious.

more than RB which they ran with almost no Rear Wing? of course mclaren had more downforce, I'd say everyone had more downforce than RB and despite that RB was still very very fast (much better chassis?)

[godlameroso]

It lacks downforce, that's it, plain and simple.

I'm sorry, but downforce is the only one thing they did not lack (in spa anyway). Trough puohon, a corner that's solely dependant on downforce, they were the 3rd fastest team, behind ferrari and merc, equal/faster even than RB.

https://streamable.com/6vtsi

This is in Q1 don't forget.

One thing they did lack was straight line speed, but that one's kinda obvious.

Pouhon is just one corner out of many. The McLaren makes good downforce but only in a specific window. The majority of corners are not in this speed range. 220-260kph.

[RonDennis]

Red Bull gained .5 copying Ferrari, I don't know how good the designers are at McLaren, but .3 is not out of the realm of possibility.

That was from the entire bargeboards not just midwing. Again, we can't put a finger on one place and label it the crux of every problem. The car as a whole doesn't work. It's fundamentally flawed.

Flawed how? Instability or just draggy?

Alonso says the car feels great. It's just slow. Im wondering if the problems would still be as bad if it had a Merc or Ferrari engine. Realistically, it's only 2.5s slower over 4.3 miles of corners.

That's not utterly terrible, but comparatively slow by F1 terms.

Flawed in terms of being dead last on the grid and having less downforce then last year. If McLaren would believe they would have been able to fix their problem with this chassis, they would have. Alonso said the following recently: "The problems with the car have been identified for some months now even though many of the solutions cannot be applied now because the 2018 design is done." I'm sure something went very wrong while designing this car, they even got the gear ratio's wrong.

[Jolle]

That was from the entire bargeboards not just midwing. Again, we can't put a finger on one place and label it the crux of every problem. The car as a whole doesn't work. It's fundamentally flawed.

Flawed how? Instability or just draggy?

Alonso says the car feels great. It's just slow. Im wondering if the problems would still be as bad if it had a Merc or Ferrari engine. Realistically, it's only 2.5s slower over 4.3 miles of corners.

That's not utterly terrible, but comparatively slow by F1 terms.

Flawed in terms of being dead last on the grid and having less downforce then last year. If McLaren would believe they would have been able to fix their problem with this chassis, they would have. Alonso said the following recently: "The problems with the car have been identified for some months now even though many of the solutions cannot be applied now because the 2018 design is done." I'm sure something went very wrong while designing this car, they even got the gear ratio's wrong.

At McLaren, in their statements, succes, sponsors and podiums are always one upgrade away...

[diffuser]

I kind of understand what Alonso talking about when he says . You show up in winter testing and you already know what the rest of the year is gonna be like..... The season has been over way to earlier for too long.

[Vanja #66]

You know, I kept thinking about the whole mid-wing configuration and I asked myself, where does the vortex from the nose go? Turns out, we were wrong to assume it went to the undercut. It actually goes under the floor through the vacancy in the mid-wing. Whereas others use this area to power the outwash, Mclaren use it to guide air under the floor, like the I said previously. This compromises the outwash and risks diffuser stall. This method of powering the floor is incredibly inefficient as well, given the high turning angle would result in obvious drag.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dg30EJNWAAAKnmT.jpg:large

Are you referring to streamlines on barge boards when you talk about that vortex?

[charliesmithhd]

You know, I kept thinking about the whole mid-wing configuration and I asked myself, where does the vortex from the nose go? Turns out, we were wrong to assume it went to the undercut. It actually goes under the floor through the vacancy in the mid-wing. Whereas others use this area to power the outwash, Mclaren use it to guide air under the floor, like the I said previously. This compromises the outwash and risks diffuser stall. This method of powering the floor is incredibly inefficient as well, given the high turning angle would result in obvious drag.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dg30EJNWAAAKnmT.jpg:large

Are you referring to streamlines on barge boards when you talk about that vortex?

They obviously realise this, so why do they continue with this concept? Too late to change?

[godlameroso]

Not enough time, and would be a patch job. So they're essentially abandoning Alonso's last season so they can do something better next year. Maybe they could have recovered had they identified the issues when I mentioned them in February.

[charliesmithhd]

Not enough time, and would be a patch job. So they're essentially abandoning Alonso's last season so they can do something better next year. Maybe they could have recovered had they identified the issues when I mentioned them in February.

So the new nose caused these problems?

[godlameroso]

Not enough time, and would be a patch job. So they're essentially abandoning Alonso's last season so they can do something better next year. Maybe they could have recovered had they identified the issues when I mentioned them in February.

So the new nose caused these problems?

Maybe in the sense that too many resources were focused on it instead of the mid wing/bargeboard area. Maybe they can get it to work but they have to re-do the whole aero concept. No matter what they do, it ends up being chassis re-design, this is the sad reality. The people who feel it the most are the staff, they may not drive the car, but they are responsible for it running, for it's performance. It's a bitter pill to swallow knowing that the car is just going to slip back further as the year goes on. Anyway this is team talk and mods feel free to clean this thread up.

[charliesmithhd]

Not enough time, and would be a patch job. So they're essentially abandoning Alonso's last season so they can do something better next year. Maybe they could have recovered had they identified the issues when I mentioned them in February.

So the new nose caused these problems?

Maybe in the sense that too many resources were focused on it instead of the mid wing/bargeboard area. Maybe they can get it to work but they have to re-do the whole aero concept. No matter what they do, it ends up being chassis re-design, this is the sad reality. The people who feel it the most are the staff, they may not drive the car, but they are responsible for it running, for it's performance. It's a bitter pill to swallow knowing that the car is just going to slip back further as the year goes on. Anyway this is team talk and mods feel free to clean this thread up.

Let's hope we see some trials of different concepts in practise this year, so that next year the car will work as it's intended to do so