McLaren MCL33

[godlameroso]

Red Bull gained .5 copying Ferrari, I don't know how good the designers are at McLaren, but .3 is not out of the realm of possibility.

You know, I kept thinking about the whole mid-wing configuration and I asked myself, where does the vortex from the nose go? Turns out, we were wrong to assume it went to the undercut. It actually goes under the floor through the vacancy in the mid-wing. Whereas others use this area to power the outwash, Mclaren use it to guide air under the floor, like the I said previously. This compromises the outwash and risks diffuser stall. This method of powering the floor is incredibly inefficient as well, given the high turning angle would result in obvious drag.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dg30EJNWAAAKnmT.jpg:large

Mercedes use the same cape concept, but they use it to power the outwash. Note mid-wing.

https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... boards.jpg

What's a proven method of using the floor to good effect is the tea-tray extension. It catches air up top and directs it downwards underneath the floor. The vortex generators help energize the air that goes to the diffuser and you have a double whammy. Ferrari supposedly gain 3 tenths just from tweaking this area further around Silverstone.

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/F ... 183363.jpg

https://imgr4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/R ... 132485.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlJBQB0XoAAPReo.jpg:large

How does this explain the drag issue? The lack of an S-duct means frontal air that would've flown through the car straight away now has now a great turning angle which makes its path difficult. All this isn't helped by the very short bargeboard length. The weak diffuser due to aforementioned reasons also effects corners exit speed which just exacerbates the problem.

Mclaren in the end abandoned a proven solution for a gamble.

We're mostly in agreement then, the surface area of the mid wing needs to increase(to speed up airflow under it and towards the floor) and their T-tray extension(what I call the device) and leading edge of the floor have to work together to energize this flow, this brings the good low speed consistent downforce from the diffuser.

[makecry]

Motorsports says top speed issue is due to gearbox ratios. Not sure how true but it would make sense a bit.

[PhillipM]

Doesn't make any sense really given the rpm limit is so far above normal use and the power spread on these PU is huge.

[henry]

Doesn't make any sense really given the rpm limit is so far above normal use and the power spread on these PU is huge.

If that were the case why did the FIA allow them a ratio change in 2014 and again in 2017?

[M840TR]

You know, I kept thinking about the whole mid-wing configuration and I asked myself, where does the vortex from the nose go? Turns out, we were wrong to assume it went to the undercut. It actually goes under the floor through the vacancy in the mid-wing. Whereas others use this area to power the outwash, Mclaren use it to guide air under the floor, like the I said previously. This compromises the outwash and risks diffuser stall. This method of powering the floor is incredibly inefficient as well, given the high turning angle would result in obvious drag.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dg30EJNWAAAKnmT.jpg:large

Are you referring to streamlines on barge boards when you talk about that vortex?

The mid-wing area.

[M840TR]

Red Bull gained .5 copying Ferrari, I don't know how good the designers are at McLaren, but .3 is not out of the realm of possibility.

You know, I kept thinking about the whole mid-wing configuration and I asked myself, where does the vortex from the nose go? Turns out, we were wrong to assume it went to the undercut. It actually goes under the floor through the vacancy in the mid-wing. Whereas others use this area to power the outwash, Mclaren use it to guide air under the floor, like the I said previously. This compromises the outwash and risks diffuser stall. This method of powering the floor is incredibly inefficient as well, given the high turning angle would result in obvious drag.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dg30EJNWAAAKnmT.jpg:large

Mercedes use the same cape concept, but they use it to power the outwash. Note mid-wing.

https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... boards.jpg

What's a proven method of using the floor to good effect is the tea-tray extension. It catches air up top and directs it downwards underneath the floor. The vortex generators help energize the air that goes to the diffuser and you have a double whammy. Ferrari supposedly gain 3 tenths just from tweaking this area further around Silverstone.

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/F ... 183363.jpg

https://imgr4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/R ... 132485.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlJBQB0XoAAPReo.jpg:large

How does this explain the drag issue? The lack of an S-duct means frontal air that would've flown through the car straight away now has now a great turning angle which makes its path difficult. All this isn't helped by the very short bargeboard length. The weak diffuser due to aforementioned reasons also effects corners exit speed which just exacerbates the problem.

Mclaren in the end abandoned a proven solution for a gamble.

We're mostly in agreement then, the surface area of the mid wing needs to increase(to speed up airflow under it and towards the floor) and their T-tray extension(what I call the device) and leading edge of the floor have to work together to energize this flow, this brings the good low speed consistent downforce from the diffuser.

The mid-wing should be used to carry the outwash and the tea-tray extension to energize air going under the floor to the diffuser.

[M840TR]

Motorsports says top speed issue is due to gearbox ratios. Not sure how true but it would make sense a bit.

Their gear ratios are same as others. They used to vary in the N/A era, not now.

[Vanja #66]

The mid-wing area.

There is no visible vortex there that comes from the front end, curved stream lines are consequence of 2 counter-rotating vortices shed from upper and lower end of vertical barge boards, as these vortices are very strong and they create a very very low pressure area that sucks the surrounding air toward it. Any vortex from the front end (y250, nose cape vortex, etc) very likely ends mixed up with front tyre wake and pushed outboard. Vortices are total pressure killers, even if they reduce pressure and can add downforce. And in that area, every piece of carbon fiber is designed to keep air total pressure as high as possible, so it can be used downstream in diffuser.

[M840TR]

The mid-wing area.

There is no visible vortex there that comes from the front end, curved stream lines are consequence of 2 counter-rotating vortices shed from upper and lower end of vertical barge boards, as these vortices are very strong and they create a very very low pressure area that sucks the surrounding air toward it. Any vortex from the front end (y250, nose cape vortex, etc) very likely ends mixed up with front tyre wake and pushed outboard. Vortices are total pressure killers, even if they reduce pressure and can add downforce. And in that area, every piece of carbon fiber is designed to keep air total pressure as high as possible, so it can be used downstream in diffuser.

But any air that passes through the mid-wing to go towards the diffuser won't be as strong as the tea-tray extension, which disappeared when the nose cape was introduced. It cannot be a coincidence.

[Big Tea]

Motorsports says top speed issue is due to gearbox ratios. Not sure how true but it would make sense a bit.

Their gear ratios are same as others. They used to vary in the N/A era, not now.

Is the dif ratio fixed? I know the actual gear steps are, but overall gearing can be lengthened at the dif?

[mszendeczki]

My english is bad, but I hope you understand.
There are five pictures. MCL sidepod moves down the airflows, and some of the airflows exit on the side of the floor. Because of this lose useful airflow in the back. So the diffuser is not the effective... No mechanic grip->big downforce on rear wing->low speed->big different

All other teams apply RB,Ferrari design on sidepod...
Only Mclaren and Williams suffer from this.

https://pasteboard.co/HB9XVM9.png
https://pasteboard.co/HB9YCKN.png
https://pasteboard.co/HB9YSVc.png
https://pasteboard.co/HB9Z80b.png
https://pasteboard.co/HB9Zqda.png

[M840TR]

Motorsports says top speed issue is due to gearbox ratios. Not sure how true but it would make sense a bit.

Their gear ratios are same as others. They used to vary in the N/A era, not now.

Is the dif ratio fixed? I know the actual gear steps are, but overall gearing can be lengthened at the dif?

I think so, ever since 2014.

[diffuser]

It lacks downforce, that's it, plain and simple.

I'm sorry, but downforce is the only one thing they did not lack (in spa anyway). Trough puohon, a corner that's solely dependant on downforce, they were the 3rd fastest team, behind ferrari and merc, equal/faster even than RB.

https://streamable.com/6vtsi

This is in Q1 don't forget.

One thing they did lack was straight line speed, but that one's kinda obvious.

Pouhon is just one corner out of many. The McLaren makes good downforce but only in a specific window. The majority of corners are not in this speed range. 220-260kph.

Plus they've taken off alot off wing to increase straight line speed.

[Zynerji]

The mid-wing area.

There is no visible vortex there that comes from the front end, curved stream lines are consequence of 2 counter-rotating vortices shed from upper and lower end of vertical barge boards, as these vortices are very strong and they create a very very low pressure area that sucks the surrounding air toward it. Any vortex from the front end (y250, nose cape vortex, etc) very likely ends mixed up with front tyre wake and pushed outboard. Vortices are total pressure killers, even if they reduce pressure and can add downforce. And in that area, every piece of carbon fiber is designed to keep air total pressure as high as possible, so it can be used downstream in diffuser.

Why was vortex stretching under the floor such a thing with the 06-08 cars then? The stair-stepped leading edge of the floor seems counter intuitive to what you are saying...

[Singabule]

Doesn't make any sense really given the rpm limit is so far above normal use and the power spread on these PU is huge.

But it will inefficient. Not to mention they must maintain backpressure from turbine so that not destroy the exhaust manifold and the temperature, also mguh rpm in the most efficient range. It is not easy. Last year they have honda engineer to do the job, now themself as Renault engineer wont allow extreme setting in PU