2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

[Just_a_fan]

He hasn’t got the luxary of leaving a couple of inches leeway that Vettel and Hamilton have when their cars are the fastest of the field by a couple of tenths.

He hasn't got the class necessary to race close, that's the problem. He came in to F1 with very little single seater experience but lots of hype. He's believed the hype from day one and not improved himself. He is also surrounded by a group of people who refuse to admonish him. The result is the spoilt brat we saw today.

It's a shame - he really could be as good as the hype if he were helped to mature as a driver and, crucially, as a man.

[Restomaniac]

Read a bit more, I didn’t say he’s allowed to, I think the penalty was fair and square. You don’t push people off the track, period. But I do understand why he has to take those risks. If you are racing on the edge, you cross it sometimes. He hasn’t got the luxary of leaving a couple of inches leeway that Vettel and Hamilton have when their cars are the fastest of the field by a couple of tenths.

No he has got the luxury of playing by the rules.
If he chooses not to that’s up to him. His reaction is one of a driver who doesn’t understand. THAT is a worry after 3 years.

They should name it “doing a Vettel”

I doubt Vettel would try that and then not understand the outcome. It’s a nailed on penalty which is why very few try it.

That’s what I don’t get. Verstappen’s reaction.

[Jolle]

I can remember a few radios from Mexico and Baku...

[Restomaniac]

I can remember a few radios from Mexico and Baku...

We’re talking about turn 1 in Monza. Anyone pushing another driver and forcing them through the polysyrene will get that reaction as a minimum from the stewards. Yet Verstappen doesn’t get that. Worrying.

[Edax]

Can you point me to these others parts of the track where it’s ok to force another car onto them?

Apparenly the first chicane. Vettel does the exact same thing to Hamilton when they enter the corner. In fact Hamilton has two wheels over the white line and there is not much but a hair between their front tires.

But I do agree, squeezing an opponent before a corner is fair, but these actions were too much. A cars width should be measured between the car and the inside of the white line, not whatever driveable surface is out there. So the penalty is OK.

But I also can understand. The Red Bull is currently in no mans land, 30 seconds adrift of the next car. Ves could land a comfortable fifth in any race, with the engine tuned down. But you would only see the car at the start and in the result table.

Smart thing, points wise, would have been to have Bottas pass on lap 5 and concentrate on fending of vettel. But by taking the fight to Mercedes, it may have cost him 2 points, but gained RB 30 mins of tv coverage, and showed his possible future (2020) employer Mercedes, that he has the measure on Bottas. But in order to be able to do that he has to take everything out of the car and the rules there is, since the car is not quick enough.

You’re comparing a start with just 2 cars. That comparison doesn’t work.
What Verstappen did was a slam dunk penalty.
There is no way Mercedes would currently take on the loose cannon that is Max Verstappen. He has the talent but currently is unable to take any criticism or see anyone else’s point of view. There is now way a machine like Mercedes-AMG takes on somebody who thinks he is bigger than everybody else in it.

Sorry.... I meant the second chicane. The one where Hamilton overtook Vettel. That is pretty much the same situation,outside pass in a chicane. For an exact comparison you can also look at Magnussen and Alonso in the first chicane exact same point. Here alonso had to take half a wheel of green stuff, not to touch Magnussen.

Still as said before they touched and the penalty is deserved.

But I think you also have to see the bigger picture, that VES was able to pass BOT, and hold him back for 40 laps, despite BOT having superior equipment, fresher tires and DRS. That says something about BOT and about VES. You can bet Merc is paying attention.

[apexcontrol]

Ofcourse verstappen gets the penalty, but the move was good, and what he wanted also, he needed to screw bottas, the mercedes is so fast theres nothing verstappen can do, then pusch bottas i a mistake.

very good race by verstappen almost held a mercedes behind him on monza, next he needs to leave more space but, but defend aggressively.
if bottas can not make one good exit before a straight, then surely verstappen must pusch him into problems, bottos does not deserve that seat, he a driving chicane

[Restomaniac]

Apparenly the first chicane. Vettel does the exact same thing to Hamilton when they enter the corner. In fact Hamilton has two wheels over the white line and there is not much but a hair between their front tires.

But I do agree, squeezing an opponent before a corner is fair, but these actions were too much. A cars width should be measured between the car and the inside of the white line, not whatever driveable surface is out there. So the penalty is OK.

But I also can understand. The Red Bull is currently in no mans land, 30 seconds adrift of the next car. Ves could land a comfortable fifth in any race, with the engine tuned down. But you would only see the car at the start and in the result table.

Smart thing, points wise, would have been to have Bottas pass on lap 5 and concentrate on fending of vettel. But by taking the fight to Mercedes, it may have cost him 2 points, but gained RB 30 mins of tv coverage, and showed his possible future (2020) employer Mercedes, that he has the measure on Bottas. But in order to be able to do that he has to take everything out of the car and the rules there is, since the car is not quick enough.

You’re comparing a start with just 2 cars. That comparison doesn’t work.
What Verstappen did was a slam dunk penalty.
There is no way Mercedes would currently take on the loose cannon that is Max Verstappen. He has the talent but currently is unable to take any criticism or see anyone else’s point of view. There is now way a machine like Mercedes-AMG takes on somebody who thinks he is bigger than everybody else in it.

Sorry.... I meant the second chicane. The one where Hamilton overtook Vettel. That is pretty much the same situation,outside pass in a chicane. For an exact comparison you can also look at Magnussen and Alonso in the first chicane exact same point. Here alonso had to take half a wheel of green stuff, not to touch Magnussen.

Still as said before they touched and the penalty is deserved.

But I think you also have to see the bigger picture, that VES was able to pass BOT, and hold him back for 40 laps, despite BOT having superior equipment, fresher tires and DRS. That says something about BOT and about VES. You can bet Merc is paying attention.

On your first point it’s not the same at all and you’re now comparing it with qualifying too?

Yes I imagine they are watching. Unfortunately for Verstappen they are seeing everything including the petulance. No way will they touch him currently as he has far too many negatives ATM.

[ringo]

I predict the end of Max's career when Gassly comes over next year. Max is a cave man. He cannot evolve and the younger fresher guys like Ocon and Piere and even Leclerc will overtake him in terms of adapting to the sport, the rules and developing race craft. It's sad that redbull are stuck with him as their lead driver. Max is a petulant man baby.
No way he can keep his head for 20 races to win a championship, but i can see the other younger, more mature guys doing that. I see Max at Haas in 2021 racing with K Mag, squablling over scraps on the track and bumper kart driving each other.

Anyhow, the reason kimi's tyres were done wasn't the car's or the team's fault. It was Kimi's. He is just not used to driving at that high level for so long while being mindful of the tyres. Hamilton pushed him to his limits and he simply burned the tyres in driving at 110%.
We have seen this before anytime you have the two fastest cars chasing each other for over 20 laps, one guy will be oversteering too much or getting on the throttle to go as fast as he can, and he is simply driving over his limit; especially while being chased by Lewis Hamilton, who is simply a race pace beast, and at least half a second faster than Kimi in terms of ability. There was no way Kimi could have held up the pace for 30 laps and not burn out. He did well to hold on and not make any mistakes though, much better than when Vettel has an equally fast car breathing down his neck.
You can't play 5 sets with roger federer, or run 200m against Usain Bolt and not self destruct somewhere along the way.

[apexcontrol]

I predict the end of Max's career when Gassly comes over next year. Max is a cave man. He cannot evolve and the younger fresher guys like Ocon and Piere and even Leclerc will overtake him in terms of adapting to the sport, the rules and developing race craft. It's sad that redbull are stuck with him as their lead driver. Max is a petulant man baby.
No way he can keep his head for 20 races to win a championship, but i can see the other younger, more mature guys doing that. I see Max at Haas in 2021 racing with K Mag, squablling over scraps on the track and bumper kart driving each other.

Anyhow, the reason kimi's tyres were done wasn't the car's or the team's fault. It was Kimi's. He is just not used to driving at that high level for so long while being mindful of the tyres. Hamilton pushed him to his limits and he simply burned the tyres in driving at 110%.
We have seen this before anytime you have the two fastest cars chasing each other for over 20 laps, one guy will be oversteering too much or getting on the throttle to go as fast as he can, and he is simply driving over his limit; especially while being chased by Lewis Hamilton, who is simply a race pace beast, and at least half a second faster than Kimi in terms of ability. There was no way Kimi could have held up the pace for 30 laps and not burn out. He did well to hold on and not make any mistakes though, much better than when Vettel has an equally fast car breathing down his neck.
You can't play 5 sets with roger federer, or run 200m against Usain Bolt and not self destruct somewhere along the way.

wahaha i dont so, 6 gp's sold out due verstappen. not any other driver on the grid has that kind of support,
and he is not like the fans the fans the fans greatest fans everywhere, you know who i am talking about dont you !!!!

well see but anyway verstappen/lerc/ocon that well be a beter generation then vettel/hamilton . thats for sure

[i70q7m7ghw]

I predict the end of Max's career when Gassly comes over next year. Max is a cave man. He cannot evolve and the younger fresher guys like Ocon and Piere and even Leclerc will overtake him in terms of adapting to the sport, the rules and developing race craft. It's sad that redbull are stuck with him as their lead driver. Max is a petulant man baby.
No way he can keep his head for 20 races to win a championship, but i can see the other younger, more mature guys doing that. I see Max at Haas in 2021 racing with K Mag, squablling over scraps on the track and bumper kart driving each other.

100% agree. Max can pull off some stellar races and can out drive his car and his team mate. BUT, as often as he's able to do that, he also puts the car in to another car or the wall. He will always be capable of the shock result during a single race weekend, but with his current attitude and approach he will never be WDC.

[NathanOlder]

I think its time the mods do something about this guy. He's now openly calling for drivers to put other drivers in the wall.

[dans79]

I think its time the mods do something about this guy. He's now openly calling for drivers to put other drivers in the wall.

Agreed!

[Wynters]

max is still not hard enough, and this was not close.
if max wants to best the best he should do this to bottas,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AzpYilkKrA (shumi knows)

so ik hope max learns and next time leaves him space, so that with the next turn he can block bottas straight into the concreet

So you suggest that, in order to avoid getting a penalty due to not knowing how wide the track is (and then screwing his own team because he refuses to believe that he did anything wrong), he should get a different penalty? That seems quite stupid, no?

It might behoove both you and Max to realise that what goes around, comes around. Drivers who get a reputation for driving into other people tend to do well briefly, then spend sometime in the midfield where they meet other drivers who are as incompetent as them or who have nothing to lose so don't compensate for idiot driving, then they exit the sport after a string of crashes or languish in obscurity blocking seats that actual drivers could be filling.

wahaha i dont so, 6 gp's sold out due verstappen. not any other driver on the grid has that kind of support,
and he is not like the fans the fans the fans greatest fans everywhere, you know who i am talking about dont you !!!

As to your suggestion that Max is nothing more than a pay driver who brings money to the team through fans purchasing merchandise... It's a bit harsh on him as I think he's pretty fast but, if you want to reduce him to nothing more than the next Maldonado, then I can see where you are coming from. Perhaps one day Max will emulate the Venzuelan and win a race where all the faster cars avoid crashing out.

[GrandAxe]

Last race it was Max on TV, laying it thick against Renault. A driver openly criticising an engine manufacturer is something previously unheard of (besides Alonso who no young driver with ambition should emulate). This race it was Max laying it thick on Bottas, the stewards and his own team.

No matter how big a drivers ego, they would be a fool to throw away WDC and WCC points, just because they are upset.

Amassing points is the essence of the game; its the reason why the team sweats millions and thousands of man hours to deliver a car, create its support technologies and employ seriously qualified staff; it is also the only reason why Max was employed.
What is the point keeping a driver who is so foolish that they deliberately deprive their team (of hundreds of people) off the satisfaction of success? Its like a boxer who goes into the ring, forgets about their opponent and starts delivering knee buckling punches to their own jaw. Plain stupid.

Today Max showed that he cares only for himself and is not a team player. Indeed he displayed disdain for the team. He has possibly shortened the list of interested employers by some margin. I see Max walking away from F1 one day just to spite the world, because his all important little ego has been pricked.

[Wynters]

On a different note, great drive by Vettel once lap 1 was out of the way. There was some serious damage to his car and he was still damn fast! I'd have loved to see him duelling with Bottas and Max but once Max picked up the 5 second penalty that wasn't going to happen. Watched several of his interviews afterwards and he actually seems pretty philosophical about the coming together with Hamilton. He's understandably unhappy with the outcome but he's clearly trying to move on rather than making a big thing about it.

Just watched the drivers press conference, funny to watch Bottas and Hamilton talking about Max's clumsy sideswipe. Bottas at least seemed fairly relaxed about it and it takes Hamilton several seconds to stop laughing.